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Need Help With Choosing A Muzzle Loader


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#21 Moose Magoo

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Posted 29 August 2016 - 05:13 PM

Hey Nomad,

Have you found any issues with the CCI magnum primers? I purchased a box and had several misfires and hang fires. I mentioned this to the retailer and he said another customer had recently made the same complaint. Might have just been a bad batch?

 

 

Hey Mercer, I may be the other customer. Couldn't use the CCI Magnum Primers with BH 209 without misfires. One solution that works would be to buy the "special breech plug" suited for BH Powder with these primers (approx. $25). Instead I tried Federal Shotshell 209A Primers using BH209 and the original breech plug and absolutely no issues.

 

Just sighted the ML in last week and used Federal #209A Shotshell, 90 gr. of BH209 and Hornady 50 cal sabot .300 gr. Worked like a charm - accurate and no misfires, etc.  btw I'm hanging on to the CCI Magnum primers in case I buy the BH 209 primer down the road.

 

PM me if you want more info.     


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......... and Trudeau says "the budget will balance itself" 


#22 308forme

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 03:00 PM

I have a CVA wolf and it will cloverleaf at 50 yards.  One safety reminder is to remover the primer if you are climbing with the gun to a treestand.  The hammer could accidently cock and cause a discharge if it were to catch on a tree branch.  That is my only negative with the Wolf.  I wish it had a safety to prevent this from happening.  Use 100 grains weight of Pyrodex RS.  I find the powder much more reliable than the pellets.  Had a bad experience with IMR White Hots last year. Only powder for me now.


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#23 KEVIN

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:05 PM

Use a rope and haul it up after you climb up, or turn your gun up side down when climbing...it'll keep the squirrel chit and other debris out of your barrel also. ^_^


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If you take your kids hunting,.....You won't have to go hunting for your kids.....KS/85

#24 308forme

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 07:36 PM

Remove the primer.  Hammer can still catch on a step or branch and misfire. She cannot go boom without a primer.  A balloon over the barrel end or Saran Wrap will keep the squirrel chit out plus prevent moisture getting to the powder. 


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#25 deertroy1

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 06:53 PM

Can't say enough good things about my Savage smokeless 10ML-II.  More performance, great accuracy, reliability and best of all no need to clean it!  I was up a couple of weeks ago testing a few loads!  I have added a few extras, mostly a custom barrel but the stock barrel shot pretty good.

2016-09-12_zps4qmdeafn.jpg


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#26 MacDonald450

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 05:54 PM

Well had my CVA Optima sighted in at about 35 to 40 yards last week. It was hitting bang on. Shooting 777 pellets, 300gr powerbelt aerolite, and federal primers. Tried it out today at about 100 yards and got 2 complete different groupings. 3 shots went 3" low and to the left. And the other 3 went 3" high and to the right. 

So I picked up 250gr powerbelts and going to see how I make out with them. Hope to get some positive results. And if not then the store has Hornady XTP 245gr that I could try as well. Lord thundering these things get expensive.

Also, when loading the XTP's, rookie question here, you leave the plastic casing on it…right?


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#27 Caper391

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 06:52 PM

Also, when loading the XTP's, rookie question here, you leave the plastic casing on it…right?

If you're referring to the sabot...correct.


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#28 MacDonald450

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 06:54 PM

Awesome thanks. Do you have any experience with them?


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#29 Moose Magoo

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 07:19 PM

Awesome thanks. Do you have any experience with them?

 

Caper 391 is correct  - they are sabots.  Hornady XTP Mag is what I shoot now but in 300gr. Sabots have higher velocities and flatter trajectories. I use BH209 powder but 777 pellets or White Hots will do. I used to use Powerbelt Aeorlite 300 gr. with pellets but switched over to the sabots and the BH209 . harasacker on this site recommended sabots and BH209 and I have to agree they work well.   I also have mine sighted in for 60 yards as that' the distance I hunt.   


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......... and Trudeau says "the budget will balance itself" 


#30 MacDonald450

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 03:55 PM

Well the 250 grain Powerbelts were a bust. So I went back to the store to grab a pack of Hornady XTP Hunter 240gr (Jacketed hollow point) and they work a lot better for me. Even though they have Traditions written on the packaging, they work good in my CVA Optima. Man this buying different types of projectiles is sure expensive. 


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#31 ALW

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 05:02 PM

MacDonald450, you can cut costs down for ammo a fair bit by buying bullets in bulk (50-100 pks) and sabots separately in 50 packs. and your propellant as loose powder rather than pellets.

 

You can buy 50 packs of .44 or .45 cal 300gr Hornady XTP's, and 100 packs of 240gr or 250gr XTP's; while Harvester, Hornady, MMP, T/C and Traditions all offer 50 packs of sabots for .50cal muzzleloaders using either .44 or .45 cal bullets.

 

It is WAY cheaper than buying the bullet & sabot combo packs, Powerbelts and pellets.

 

My Optima seems to shoot everything I've tried in it really. I've settled on Harvester Scorpion PT Gold 300gr .45 cal bullets and Harvester smooth black sabots as my hunting load; with Hornady XTP 300gr .44 cal in a Hornady green sabot (.44/.50) as my second choice. I have used Triple Seven powder, but now use only BH209.

 

To get the most out of your rifle you may have to try loose powder and tinker with the charge weight to see what load your rifle shoots best. Mine likes 95gr (V) of BH209 with both bullet/sabot combos above.

 

Have fun, there is a definite learning curve, but it can be a lot of fun making smoke!  


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#32 greybeard

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 07:52 PM

I buy my sabots and pistol bullets separate and as ALW said this is the best way for projectiles for a ML.


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Insanity/Hunting...doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different outcome.

#33 Mercer

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 09:38 AM

Hey Mercer, I may be the other customer. Couldn't use the CCI Magnum Primers with BH 209 without misfires. One solution that works would be to buy the "special breech plug" suited for BH Powder with these primers (approx. $25). Instead I tried Federal Shotshell 209A Primers using BH209 and the original breech plug and absolutely no issues.

 

Just sighted the ML in last week and used Federal #209A Shotshell, 90 gr. of BH209 and Hornady 50 cal sabot .300 gr. Worked like a charm - accurate and no misfires, etc.  btw I'm hanging on to the CCI Magnum primers in case I buy the BH 209 primer down the road.

 

PM me if you want more info.     

Thanks Magoo,

I did switch to the Blackhorn breach plug but still had issues with the CCI primers. I'm using the Federal Fusion primers now and they've worked flawlessly.


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#34 Moose Magoo

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:14 PM

Thanks, I'll stay away from the CCI primers. Mine likes Federal 209A Shotgun primers so I'll stay with them or try Federal Fusion if need be. 

 

I also do a regular cleaning of my breach plug with torch tip cleaners (Princess Auto) and a 1/8" (or #32) drill bit to keep the fire channel free. Works great!  -   see website below for more info:

 

http://www.blackhorn...-plug-cleaning/


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......... and Trudeau says "the budget will balance itself" 


#35 308forme

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 10:52 AM

Had my CVA Wolf to the Range yesterday.  Using 100 Gr vol (6.7cc) of 777 powder.  Results are great.  Shot 230 gr 45 cal RN with Black sabot, Tradition 45 cal Smackdown aero 250 gr with yellow sabot, and Hornaday XTP 240 gr 44 cal with green sabot.  All shot within 2" at 100 yds.  Also tried a 3 pellet White Hot load with a 230 gr RN and it was within the group also.  The 777 powder gives more of a rifle crack sound than IMR or Pyrodex RS.  Also switched between Fusion muzzleloader primers and Winchester 209 primers....made no noticeable difference.  Just love to shoot this smoke pole!  Monday is GAME ON!


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#36 grabbers

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 12:18 PM

I use a CVA Buckhorn with an old sight my father in law had lying around. 

 

It was cheap and came with a starter kit of cleaning supplies and bullets.  She shoots pretty good. 

I haven't shot a deer with it yet.  But that's more about me than the rifle.

 


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#37 MacDonald450

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 03:01 PM

Rainy day today so made a trip to Leaves and Limbs. Picked up Hornady SST 250gr and some White hots. So now I have

-250gr Powerbelt
-300gr Powerbelt
-240gr Hornady XTP with sabots
-Hornady SST Low Drag 250gr


-777 Pellets
-Whitehots

 

 

So my question is, any combinations I should try? Shooting out of a CVA Optima V2.


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#38 Caper391

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 06:10 PM

If someone was to hand me those ingredients, I would probably start with a 100gr charge of T7 and the 240gr xtp.  Shoot a grouping and then start changing the projectile and see what you have the best results with.  Change the powder and repeat. 


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#39 MacDonald450

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 10:14 PM

Alright Ill try that out tomorrow. Thanks Caper 391!


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#40 308forme

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 08:12 AM

Also make sure not to over the 100 grain volume of 777.  It equates to 6.7cc = 6.7mL volume.  I shot 100 grain weight of 777 and it kicked more than a 300 win mag.  Reduced the 777 to 6.7 cc and now feels more like a 308 and did not change bullet placement at all.  6.7 cc for each load now and no more.  I still may be even to reduce the powder even more but that will have to wait until another test session.  I like the 777 but would also like to try Blackhorn 209.  Both are rated very close but BH 209 is supposed to be much cleaner.


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