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#61 PLEASEDELETETHISACCOUNT

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:03 AM

We as hunters have to ask why more and more land is inaccessible? Problem hunters, folks pretending. We have a few that recite the law over and over about accessing land. The real problem is many are not willing to leave there expensive toys home. Land is accessible for many if they want to walk. We got to cut the BS. Just about every hunting vehicle has an atv on it these days, where are they all going then? One has access to land behind private many times if they walk. I hunted in the Halifax area for over 10 years. What I seen was this. Someone parks along the highway and for some reason someone else in there mind figures that must be a good spot, so he parks there, then another and another, until there is as many as five cars. There is no reason for this that I can think of as I drive by. These hunters make me nervous. I used to call them Saturday hunters. Here is a point I have brought up many times, but those that argue can't seem to understand. If Nova Scotia is mostly private lands and you take the position that you can do what you wish, ignore landowners wishes because landowners do not own it, they just rent it, and you have as much right to it as them, where does one really think this will bring us. To smaller and smaller parcels of land, with more fighting. If we all could approach landowners respectively who knows what doors may open. Many have lost our trust, and we need them.


^^^^^ well said as usual TS^^^^^
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#62 Daddy Duncan

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:14 PM

' .But no one HAS to hunt EACH season ' 

 

  Well maybe a lot of the younger hunters don`t have to hunt every season, but what about us older hunters?  I am 78 years old and have been teaching my grand kids how to hunt. Had a great and successful time last year in the deer season teaching my granddaughter, and a successful bear hunt with her this season. We are presently still trying to fill our deer tags. If the season for deer were to close for a year or more, would I still be able physically to take her or any of my other grand kids,  or any of my great grand kids ( yes some are getting close to the hunting age LOL) hunting with me?? I certainly don`t want to teach them how to hunt from my truck ,shooting out the window with a disability permit.

   If it is in the best interest of the deer herd to close the season, say in district 108) which is where we have a hunting camp, would not most of the people who hunt there just drive to another area  and drag that area down too??

     I know that back in the 50-60`s we had a buck season only and the deer herds expanded. I could live with a buck season only in the zones that seem to have low deer numbers, but I would not like to see a closed season for all N.S. for a few years due to my age.


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#63 MWO has left

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:36 PM

' .But no one HAS to hunt EACH season ' 
 
  Well maybe a lot of the younger hunters don`t have to hunt every season, but what about us older hunters?  I am 78 years old and have been teaching my grand kids how to hunt. Had a great and successful time last year in the deer season teaching my granddaughter, and a successful bear hunt with her this season. We are presently still trying to fill our deer tags. If the season for deer were to close for a year or more, would I still be able physically to take her or any of my other grand kids,  or any of my great grand kids ( yes some are getting close to the hunting age LOL) hunting with me?? I certainly don`t want to teach them how to hunt from my truck ,shooting out the window with a disability permit.
   If it is in the best interest of the deer herd to close the season, say in district 108) which is where we have a hunting camp, would not most of the people who hunt there just drive to another area  and drag that area down too??
     I know that back in the 50-60`s we had a buck season only and the deer herds expanded. I could live with a buck season only in the zones that seem to have low deer numbers, but I would not like to see a closed season for all N.S. for a few years due to my age.

It is a double edged sword DD. Many are concerned about low Deer numbers, low Fawn sighting, etc. It is talked about here, on FB, etc. But very few, including our Orgs, want to give up an "opportunity" to help out with those concerns...It usually comes down to an individuals "wants" rather then "needs" I do my part, I have not shot a deer, three years running this year...Not that I could not, I passed on two this week...I still take my gun for daily walks, still get the benefit of "Hunting" just do not take off the safety. More power to those that choose to shoot. I need to do my part in a recovery plan...so I do...a box or two of 50-70 lbs Deer meat will make no difference at the end of the day in my home..
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#64 featherweight

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:33 PM

Lots of good points made in this thread.

The area I hunt in 108 has been challenging since 1985. Most hunters have left for elsewhere.

The few remaining hunters don’t materially impact the population. The population regulates hunter success not the other way around. Low deer numbers, low/no harvest.

To me it makes no sense to close the area when it hasn’t rebounded in 32 years with hardly a hunter around. Clearly hunting isn’t a significant regulating factor for these 4 mountains.

It just is what it is.

And it’s a blast to walk those forests for 15-20 days a year, regardless of the success rate.
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#65 E.D. Taxidermy

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:22 PM

I had a beautiful walk in the woods yesterday.

 

Guess what I saw?

 

Rubs, scrapes and scat!

 

This got my brain buzzing with this new sudden activity.  I have another theory to add to the pot of already thick soup.

 

This has been a super warm fall.  Most of the nights have been around 8-10C with days between 16-20C.

 

Most people would agree that when it comes to deer, they hate the heat and love to move to and from feeding grounds when things cool off.  They will move at night when its cooler and bed during the day on warm days.  This drawn out warm weather could be disrupting their migration bio-clock too.

 

My theory is this:

 

108 is mostly mountainous with higher elevations than down south.  Perhaps these deer stay up in the hills to avoid low warmer land temps and stay under tree cover where its shady.  Nova Scotia is chalked full of natural springs and swamps to provide water.  With such warms temps, things are still growing (Rack stacker feed dropped back in September is still sprouting)  Flowers have even been blooming!  With that being said, could it be the deer have had plenty of feed in their summer grounds that they didnt bother to come down lower?  

 

Since Friday evening, Ive seen 5 deer.  With temps dropping, night time may be bitter cold for the deer and the warmer daylight might be more suitable for them.  They may have no adjusted to this new cold weather either, and like bears, may be suddenly feeling the need to pack on the fat.  Now that its much cooler their migratory instinct could have kicked in.  The mountains are much much colder suddenly, spurring the deer to move?  What Im suddenly seeing in the last few days is probably the first wave of those better numbers seen last February.

 

This is again a theory, not fact or science.  I still believe that there are loads of factors at work with deer and being the mysterious creatures they are, they will continue to baffle and stump hunters for the next 300 years.

 

BCL:

 

Its great that you are giving input to our DNR here in Nova Scotia.  Every bit helps!  I could never ask anyone to not hunt, or to not take a deer in their area.  It is a good suggestion though to those who are wanting to help with any concerns with populations in certain areas.  Once again, every bit helps!  As you said, its not like there are no alternatives to filling the freezer with store bought meat.

 

Each person has their own code of ethics, some are very noble, while others leave much to be desired.  We all know "That guy" <_<   I myself feed a family of 3 and one 2.5-3 year old deer is enough for us.   We could get 4 tags a year between my husband and I and probably fill them in, say 107, but I only need one deer.  Next year I will only be getting a general tag because one deer is plenty!  However, if I dont get one in General, I may get my muzzleloader tag to squeeze in that last week.  Back where I am from 1 buck deer, forked horn or better was the norm in many zones and being blacktailed deer, its easy to skunk a season 4-5 years in a row!  :rolleyes:

 

I totally agree it is awesome therapy to get out in the woods and see wildlife.  this is my first year trapping, and even if I dont get a single mangy coyote, I still enjoy the walk.  My favorite is when the snow is just barely on the ground and you can see all the new tracks from everything thats moved during the night!  Its like a book!  Theres a great story being told in the woods!

 

So in light of the movement seen in the last 2 days, Im totally hoping we will see an upswing and our concerns are unfounded by hyperbole and irrational fears!  ;)


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You gonna eat that?  :blink:


#66 Thunderstick

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:14 PM

I had a beautiful walk in the woods yesterday.

 

Guess what I saw?

 

Rubs, scrapes and scat!

 

This got my brain buzzing with this new sudden activity.  I have another theory to add to the pot of already thick soup.

 

This has been a super warm fall.  Most of the nights have been around 8-10C with days between 16-20C.

 

Most people would agree that when it comes to deer, they hate the heat and love to move to and from feeding grounds when things cool off.  They will move at night when its cooler and bed during the day on warm days.  This drawn out warm weather could be disrupting their migration bio-clock too.

 

My theory is this:

 

108 is mostly mountainous with higher elevations than down south.  Perhaps these deer stay up in the hills to avoid low warmer land temps and stay under tree cover where its shady.  Nova Scotia is chalked full of natural springs and swamps to provide water.  With such warms temps, things are still growing (Rack stacker feed dropped back in September is still sprouting)  Flowers have even been blooming!  With that being said, could it be the deer have had plenty of feed in their summer grounds that they didnt bother to come down lower?  

 

Since Friday evening, Ive seen 5 deer.  With temps dropping, night time may be bitter cold for the deer and the warmer daylight might be more suitable for them.  They may have no adjusted to this new cold weather either, and like bears, may be suddenly feeling the need to pack on the fat.  Now that its much cooler their migratory instinct could have kicked in.  The mountains are much much colder suddenly, spurring the deer to move?  What Im suddenly seeing in the last few days is probably the first wave of those better numbers seen last February.

 

This is again a theory, not fact or science.  I still believe that there are loads of factors at work with deer and being the mysterious creatures they are, they will continue to baffle and stump hunters for the next 300 years.

 

BCL:

 

Its great that you are giving input to our DNR here in Nova Scotia.  Every bit helps!  I could never ask anyone to not hunt, or to not take a deer in their area.  It is a good suggestion though to those who are wanting to help with any concerns with populations in certain areas.  Once again, every bit helps!  As you said, its not like there are no alternatives to filling the freezer with store bought meat.

 

Each person has their own code of ethics, some are very noble, while others leave much to be desired.  We all know "That guy" <_<   I myself feed a family of 3 and one 2.5-3 year old deer is enough for us.   We could get 4 tags a year between my husband and I and probably fill them in, say 107, but I only need one deer.  Next year I will only be getting a general tag because one deer is plenty!  However, if I dont get one in General, I may get my muzzleloader tag to squeeze in that last week.  Back where I am from 1 buck deer, forked horn or better was the norm in many zones and being blacktailed deer, its easy to skunk a season 4-5 years in a row!  :rolleyes:

 

I totally agree it is awesome therapy to get out in the woods and see wildlife.  this is my first year trapping, and even if I dont get a single mangy coyote, I still enjoy the walk.  My favorite is when the snow is just barely on the ground and you can see all the new tracks from everything thats moved during the night!  Its like a book!  Theres a great story being told in the woods!

 

So in light of the movement seen in the last 2 days, Im totally hoping we will see an upswing and our concerns are unfounded by hyperbole and irrational fears!  ;)

 

I wished your theory worked. I hunt mountain tops, refuse to go hunting in the valley floor. Just to many people pushing boundries, to many crazies. The difference in temps is noticeable but very few deer inhabit what's left of what we call real woods, they hide on the valley floor amongst residential areas. I hunt hard for those that have horns, usually ending it mid November. Hunting into December, with muzzle or bow I don't agree with as there has been significant damage inflicted from September to that point, and not to mention now Sundays, running the season extra long just adds more stress to what survived the past three months. One thing I have learned after hunting really nothing but whitetail deer every year, all my vacation, now retirement is nothing that was written, or passed down should be taken as gospel in 2017, except wind direction, a very smart animal that adapts. I seen the most deer this year in soaring temps. Clear cold days when you can hear a pin drop nothing. The last deer I saw was three weeks ago, what changed, more traffic, the opening of rifle season my guess. 


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#67 labradort

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:16 PM

"No Hunting" does not mean there is no hunting.  My brother in law has that all over his property, which he hunts.  It often means someone has staked a claim on hunting rights, whether by land ownership or obtaining permission.

 

The story is the same in Ontario.  Almost all "Wildlife Management Units" in Ontario show something other than green for deer sightings reported.  The first day season opened, I heard shots from directions of multiple adjacent properties together with some cheers from some.  The next 3 days there were no shots.  Nothing showed on multiple game cameras next to feeding stations since Oct 30.  Phoning around, people in other areas reported low numbers.  Americans who used to get a deer every year in Northern Ontario have stopped coming up because they have no luck two years in a row.

 

There could be factors like auto collisions, bear and coyote pressure, but I am now convinced hunters and possibly poachers (of many sorts) are the main cause of the numbers collapsing.

 

Almost everyone is hunting over deer bait.  The formula is dead simple.  If a person put out a bird feeder and regularly stocked it with seed, there would be birds every day.  Then imagine a person opens fire on them when November comes.  Do that year after year and you can bet it will always trick the unsuspecting bird feeder bird when one month of the year turns from easy food to a trap.  If this practice is widespread, and happening year after year, the number of birds returning to the feeder eventually collapses.  What you can imagine being the outcome for birds coming to hundreds of hunted bird feeders is no different than for deer. 

 

The hunting methods and equipment are very good.  The penetration into every nook and cranny of the forest by woods roads and ATVs is thorough.  The efficiency is so good that deer numbers are falling.  There are some deer who don't frequent the wild as much and go to feeders like the one run by the lady in Truro.  They are going to survive hunting season but might be killed by car.  Poaching is another factor.  There are people who live and spend all their time near the edge of woods, don't have much income, and eat whatever they can find for food, or hunt the sex other than their tag.  The chances of being caught are very low.  I've been out scouting Crown land several times in the off season and never see anyone out there let alone a Conservation Officer.


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#68 beaverhunter

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:43 PM

I will ask the same question every year this topic comes up......if people are hunting in areas,where they are aware the populations are struggling,why contribute?Why not take a year or two off the pressure?Or possibly hunt in zones where the numbers are decent?I dont get it,many talk about micro managing,being responsible hunters and such....but their still out there hunting areas where the deer numbers are low and they are completely aware of it.Is the sport and the kill more important?cant be to provide meat for the family,cause its cheaper to buy at cosco than to persue a whitetailed deer these days lol.I just dont understand:/

 

I am really getting tired of these types of comments as they do come up quite a bit on here.  Yes it's cheaper to buy meat at Costco if you are a city hunter, ie. you live in the city drive to country to do your hunting, you bait you run cameras etc.  However you do realize there are lots of poorer people in the country with families and they hunt their back 40 for meat they would otherwise not be able to afford, lots of them do their own butchering as well and don't have any fancy camo or other hunting gear so for them it's not cheaper and their only cost is a an old .30/30 or .303 round.


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I remember watching bambi for the first time when I was little and my favourite part
was when they killed bambi's mother because I knew somwhere the hunters
family was eating good that night never understood why they made him out to be the
bad guy.

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but We are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works.

Gotta Love The Nova Scotia Federation of Anti Hunters


#69 Tripple D

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:02 PM

I am really getting tired of these types of comments as they do come up quite a bit on here.  Yes it's cheaper to buy meat at Costco if you are a city hunter, ie. you live in the city drive to country to do your hunting, you bait you run cameras etc.  However you do realize there are lots of poorer people in the country with families and they hunt their back 40 for meat they would otherwise not be able to afford, lots of them do their own butchering as well and don't have any fancy camo or other hunting gear so for them it's not cheaper and their only cost is a an old .30/30 or .303 round.


That's pretty accurate beaverhunter, not saying you,but a lot of them shoot deer all year round too,and many never even buy a license.
As to cost,most of us do it because we enjoy it,same as any other activities,ie golf,we pay for the enjoyment not the meat.
Then again - this year - one trip to the woods $20 for gas- $$30 for hunting license- one arrow,retrieved 0 cost.For 80-85 lbs of meat and a day full of enjoyment. That's less than 75 cents a pound!Lets see Costco beat that.
Just saying beaverhunter not about the $$$$$.
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#70 bakerpete

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:31 PM

In the area that i hunt every year ,the deer numbers may go up or down a bit but they never seem to crash .From first hand observation i can tell you more deer are killed by cars on the 103 and surrounding roads than are killed by hunters in the same area .I see way fewer hunters than i did back in the 80-90's (at least where i hunt ).Trailcam's don't lie , there are deer in the area , just a lot of them are bordering on being nocturnal .Just this summer i was headed home from work to find a adult doe lying the middle of the hammonds plains road with her left back leg all smashed to hell .Small crowd of people standing there watching her struggle to crawl off the road (unsuccessfully ).Grabbed her by her right back leg and drug her onto someone's lawn.I have seen this happen right by my backyard several times .Car's kill more deer around here than hunters do and nobody's going to quit driving for a year or so to let the deer pop come back up .I think habitat loss in a factor too , as wooded area's outside the city are ripped down for another apartment complex or mall .We all drive cars and we all live in some type of building , so  i quess we're all a little bit to blame .


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Wish i had half the skill with a rifle my dad had(rest in peace  Dad).

#71 nomad

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:05 PM

60% of an eastern coyote's diet is whitetail deer. We have lots of them. We had 100,000 hunters in the 1980's. Today we have less than 40,000.which one would you say has more impact on deer numbers?
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#72 bakerpete

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:15 PM

Your right Nomad , coyotes are a big factor also .


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Wish i had half the skill with a rifle my dad had(rest in peace  Dad).

#73 labradort

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:41 AM

60% of an eastern coyote's diet is whitetail deer. We have lots of them. We had 100,000 hunters in the 1980's. Today we have less than 40,000.which one would you say has more impact on deer numbers?

 

Be careful in interpreting that.  60% of any random coyote's diet comes from deer. That isn't the same as 60% of deer are eaten by coyote.  People here are saying coyote numbers have come down.  I can't see how this can be the main issue today.


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#74 PLEASEDELETETHISACCOUNT

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:29 AM

It is a double edged sword DD. Many are concerned about low Deer numbers, low Fawn sighting, etc. It is talked about here, on FB, etc. But very few, including our Orgs, want to give up an "opportunity" to help out with those concerns...It usually comes down to an individuals "wants" rather then "needs" I do my part, I have not shot a deer, three years running this year...Not that I could not, I passed on two this week...I still take my gun for daily walks, still get the benefit of "Hunting" just do not take off the safety. More power to those that choose to shoot. I need to do my part in a recovery plan...so I do...a box or two of 50-70 lbs Deer meat will make no difference at the end of the day in my home..


^^ exactly^^
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#75 PLEASEDELETETHISACCOUNT

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:32 AM

That's pretty accurate beaverhunter, not saying you,but a lot of them shoot deer all year round too,and many never even buy a license.
As to cost,most of us do it because we enjoy it,same as any other activities,ie golf,we pay for the enjoyment not the meat.
Then again - this year - one trip to the woods $20 for gas- $$30 for hunting license- one arrow,retrieved 0 cost.For 80-85 lbs of meat and a day full of enjoyment. That's less than 75 cents a pound!Lets see Costco beat that.
Just saying beaverhunter not about the $$$$$.

I would zero ur scales
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#76 nomad

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 12:14 PM

Be careful in interpreting that. 60% of any random coyote's diet comes from deer. That isn't the same as 60% of deer are eaten by coyote. People here are saying coyote numbers have come down. I can't see how this can be the main issue today.


Umm, I didn't say coyotes eat 60% of deer. I said 60% of their diet is whitetail deer.. As far as coyotes being down, that may be true in some areas but the ones that are there, are still hunting white tails 365 days a year as their primary food source.I would definitely consider them a (if not thee) main issue. Along with habitat loss, other predators and late winter conditions. I wouldn't consider hunting to be at all close to any of those factors. Problem here is not enough people predator hunt and not enough trap to balance things out.
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#77 Tripple D

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:51 PM

I would zero ur scales


Lol - there is a chart on net,from pa.gov. 144lb field dressed deer will yield 80 lbs of consumable meat.So my estimate was pretty close!
But that's wasn't my point- even if 50 lbs it was still cheaper than Costco!
But hey while I got ur attention- next time you got those needles out maybe ya can knit me some wool gloves!
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Everyone out there in NSH land have a super duper day and please store your guns in a safe manner πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸŒοΈβ€β™€οΈπŸŽ±πŸ¦ŒπŸ€ 

#78 Tripple D

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:00 PM

In the area that i hunt every year ,the deer numbers may go up or down a bit but they never seem to crash .From first hand observation i can tell you more deer are killed by cars on the 103 and surrounding roads than are killed by hunters in the same area .I see way fewer hunters than i did back in the 80-90's (at least where i hunt ).Trailcam's don't lie , there are deer in the area , just a lot of them are bordering on being nocturnal .Just this summer i was headed home from work to find a adult doe lying the middle of the hammonds plains road with her left back leg all smashed to hell .Small crowd of people standing there watching her struggle to crawl off the road (unsuccessfully ).Grabbed her by her right back leg and drug her onto someone's lawn.I have seen this happen right by my backyard several times .Car's kill more deer around here than hunters do and nobody's going to quit driving for a year or so to let the deer pop come back up .I think habitat loss in a factor too , as wooded area's outside the city are ripped down for another apartment complex or mall .We all drive cars and we all live in some type of building , so  i quess we're all a little bit to blame .


In reference to bordering on nocturnal- some places it's crazy.Four areas with cams 1- 7-8 different deer,cam out since mid Sept.not one single daytime pic.2- at least four different bucks and numerous does/ fawns 1 day time pic !3- only 4 different deer and only one daytime pic.4- bingo,two daytime pics and once again 7-8 different deer! I've never seen so little daytime movement in any of these places over twenty five or so years!
OH the snakes crawl at night!
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Everyone out there in NSH land have a super duper day and please store your guns in a safe manner πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸŒοΈβ€β™€οΈπŸŽ±πŸ¦ŒπŸ€ 

#79 em.fisher

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:03 PM

I have been reading this thread as new comments are added and find the whole subject interesting. We have seen a difference in deer presence on our property from last year to this year, there does appear to be a lack of them this year. There are multiple factors contributing to this, no comment is neither right nor wrong as all contributors to the thread have their own opinions to why deer seem to be less abundant this year. Equally, everyone has the right to eat meat bought from Costco or anywhere else for that matter just as hunters have the right to harvest wild meat to feed their family if they prefer.

Those who take more than they need or those who take deer that they do not hold a tag for or take a deer and not hold a tag at all are not only cheating other fair hunting hunters but also themselves for future years to come.

My husband and I can take two deer each a year if we really wanted to, but we only need the one as we raise other livestock and hunt smaller game. We also prefer as a self reliant hunter/gatherer family to eat meat that has run free, free from added extras and those wild animals we hunt out wit us most of the time. That is the way it should be, spend time in the beautiful outdoors and if we are lucky take home wild food to nourish us.

So far it it looks like we may be eating tag soup, and although deer meat is met with keen eyes on the dinner table it also means that there is one more deer out there to carry on the next generation.


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#80 Cliff

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:33 PM

I drove home from the camp Saturday evening saw five deer on the way all at different locations saw a big buck dead on bihi hill just before the rifle range this afternoon. Just about every time I travel the 102 I see deer either alive or dead in the ditch deer seem to be fairly plentiful maybe not behind every tree but they are out there.The exception is Cape Breton in the last ten years I have only seen a hand full.I think the warm weather the early part of the season kept the movement to nighttime hours this cool weather will have them on the move now, get out and hunt them.
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