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Gerry Byrne Fined For Having An Un-Plugged Shotgun, After Being Named Land Resources Minister

4K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  3macs1 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
A wildlife officer fined fisheries and land resources minister Gerry Byrne $86 for a having an un-plugged shotgun during a October 2017 hunting trip - just three months after he was appointed to the new cabinet role, leaving behind the advanced education, skills and labour portfolio. He was hunting near Gaff's Topsail in central Newfoundland, when a wildlife officer approached him for a trail-side check. The government's wildlife regulations state it is unlawful "to carry, transport or possess, in any area frequented by wildlife, any pump or autoloading shotgun unless it is plugged or altered so that it cannot carry any more than a total of three shells in the magazine and chamber combined." In a statement to CBC News, Byrne confirmed he did violate the wildlife regulations by not having the required plug in his 20-gauge long gun, which he says was newly purchased at the time. Byrne said it had not previously been fired. He said the firearm was locked, secured and unloaded and it remained with him, even after he was issued a ticket for the missing plug. "It was a good reminder to take better precautions to follow all necessary wildlife regulations and to encourage others to do so as well," Byrne said, adding that he paid the fine.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/gerry-byrne-hunting-violation-fine-1.5482248
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
All I can say is this , it's a good reminder for ANYONE who takes a new or recently purchased used firearm of any manner to examine it and due your due diligence to make sure it fall in with protocol of all existing hunting regulations .

Ignorance that it was recently purchased IMHO is no excuse not to check the Damm thing over to make sure ALL required laws are followed with firearm in a wildlife habitat .

Yes it can happen easily but checking it over ensures it WON'T happen to begin with .

As Fisheries and Resource Minister bet it was hard to wash that EGG of his Face , or was he just thinking my Portfolio will protect me from any Infractions of the Law . Either way he learned his lesson just like anyone else flaunting deliberately or unintentionally any wildlife management laws .

Any firearm I've purchased ALWAYS had full tear down and examination with cleaning to ensure it was safe and had any required plugs or mag limits met as required by law .
 
#5 ·
Here is the problem. It is different province to province and really shouldn't be and in his case yes he should have known being from the rock . Mine in Ontario a total shock
Here he would have been just fine
Cheers
I've been told numerous times it's required in any wildlife habitat to have the gun plugged , so easy to say your out upland hunting and then opportunity presents itself for waterfowl and you take it , then in direct violation , so many will say it was plugged when it wasn't to begin with .
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
I've been told numerous times it's required in any wildlife habitat to have the gun plugged , so easy to say your out upland hunting and then opportunity presents itself for waterfowl and you take it , then in direct violation , so many will say it was plugged when it wasn't to begin with .
Not true here. YET

Well then you would have to be carrying steel shot for the 20ga which few upland hunting do plus have a waterfowl licence which again many upland hunters may not

None of my upland 20ga guns can accept steel shot either, His new one would be oK I would say

Cheers
 
#9 ·
I can see this as human error, he made a mistake, owned up to it, paid the fine and carried on, no problem with that. My pumps all have plugs in them and they never come out. 3 shells is more than enough. Things can change quickly, especially when you are shooting at critters on the move.. After three shots, it's time to take your finger off the trigger and re asses the situation. When I am in the woods and hear some one emptying their mag I absolutely cringe. On the range...not so much.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Not true here. YET
Well then you would have to be carrying steel shot for the 20ga which few upland hunting do plus have a waterfowl licence which again many upland hunters may not
None of my upland 20ga guns can accept steel shot either, His new one would be oK I would say
Cheers
I know what I was told , then again they could be looking at the fact my waterfowl lic is stapled inside my book so all my lic are together , it's only been said to me when I'm carrying a pump , I don't use semi for upland hunting , as for my shot selection upland is always lead , Now waterfowling all my pumps or semis have their plug there at all times , if it's taken out for cleaning it's put back before the firearm goes back into service . I simply don't take the chance .
 
#11 ·
I know what I was told , then again they could be looking at the fact my waterfowl pic is stapled inside my book so all my lic are together , it's only been said to me when I'm carrying a pump , I don't use semi for upland hunting , as for my shot selection upland is always lead , Now waterfowling all my pumps or semis have their plug there at all times , if it's taken out for cleaning it's put back before the firearm goes back into service . I simply don't take the chance .
It is not a bad thing to have it in for all hunting and all mine do but they cannot force or charge you if not here unless waterfowl hunting

Like I said so far :(

Coyotes would be a time I could see it may have an advantage if a couple come out

Cheers
 
#12 ·
Remember this if you are hunting in a federal wildlife managed zone such as Bellisle then the federal migratory lead free and shotgun restriction regulations apply, regardless of the small game you are hunting. As someone stated wise is the person who leaves their plug in and makes sure it is in place, always check your regulations and know your area as NS has a number of Federally managed zones.

As for those who have shotguns not steel certified I can tell you this the days of lead for hunting in NS is seriously being looked at, one reason is that since it is on the federal side is there any reason not to. This talk is coming from the Government it self, I predict within 5 yrs max NS will be lead free as far as hunting small game with shotguns goes.

Personally having a Minister that hunts Newfoundland is so lucky, yes maybe he should have known better but he owned up paid the fine and didn't try to hide the fact. At least when someone asks hunting related questions they would get a reasoned response and not just a spur of the moment "not on my watch".
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Remember this if you are hunting in a federal wildlife managed zone such as Bellisle then the federal migratory lead free and shotgun restriction regulations apply, regardless of the small game you are hunting. As someone stated wise is the person who leaves their plug in and makes sure it is in place, always check your regulations and know your area as NS has a number of Federally managed zones.

As for those who have shotguns not steel certified I can tell you this the days of lead for hunting in NS is seriously being looked at, one reason is that since it is on the federal side is there any reason not to. This talk is coming from the Government it self, I predict within 5 yrs max NS will be lead free as far as hunting small game with shotguns goes.

Personally having a Minister that hunts Newfoundland is so lucky, yes maybe he should have known better but he owned up paid the fine and didn't try to hide the fact. At least when someone asks hunting related questions they would get a reasoned response and not just a spur of the moment "not on my watch".
Love to see that info as far as current movement

That talk has been going back to 1998

Don't bet any money with your prediction
smile.png


Government right now is up to their neck with way more important issues. They may have bit off a bit too much I am hearing on the old gun ban not to mention western canada has their head spinning LOL
 
#14 ·
I know where everyone is coming from on this issue but the non toxic shot for hunting is being looked at as being phased in here in Nova Scotia, much the same way as Blaze Orange did back in the day. Our Lands and Forestry knows that steel shot is now available in all regular shot sizes from #7 on up. for most shooters it probably won't matter too much but if I was going to buy another new or used shotgun I would want it to be steel certified, all we are talking about is a regulation change. There are States right now listing their small game as non toxic shot only since waterfowl require it why not simplify the process. I started seriously using steel about 10 yrs ago for everything small game, all my shotguns are screw in chokes all are steel certified and the shells are not hard to find. Woodcock and grouse #7and 6, for pheasant steel I go with usually #4 and 3. In fact some places carry more offerings in steel then lead, which points in the direction of steel in lead out. the last couple of years in the NS Regulation book they are pushing the message highly recommended that non toxic ammunition be used. That kind of wording is usually a way of preparing the public for changes. However time will tell.
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
I know where everyone is coming from on this issue but the non toxic shot for hunting is being looked at as being phased in here in Nova Scotia, much the same way as Blaze Orange did back in the day. Our Lands and Forestry knows that steel shot is now available in all regular shot sizes from #7 on up. for most shooters it probably won't matter too much but if I was going to buy another new or used shotgun I would want it to be steel certified, all we are talking about is a regulation change. There are States right now listing their small game as non toxic shot only since waterfowl require it why not simplify the process. I started seriously using steel about 10 yrs ago for everything small game, all my shotguns are screw in chokes all are steel certified and the shells are not hard to find. Woodcock and grouse #7and 6, for pheasant steel I go with usually #4 and 3. In fact some places carry more offerings in steel then lead, which points in the direction of steel in lead out. the last couple of years in the NS Regulation book they are pushing the message highly recommended that non toxic ammunition be used. That kind of wording is usually a way of preparing the public for changes. However time will tell.
I am so far on the other end of this not worth getting into it. It is what is it and it is nothing personal. To each their own

I have to ask why one would think this now because we are leading the way ??? as stated in the past and it is not right for me to go there full bore now. WE all know where the message started and sadly for her where it stopped. Who is driving it NOW?????

Eliminate it at clubs and ranges and might as well close them now.

This province is priceless. What about buckshot. We just got the OK and now that will be gone also

I am not even going there. If there was ever a place that was against growing the shooting sports we are living in it welcome to Nova Scotia

If it was indeed a federal thing fine but it is not. It is a province thing or was

Which states ?? other than california washington and oregon. The ones you think do are only in select wildlife refuge areas etc not state wide or public owned land

Blaze orange is a poor comparison

Personally I don't give a crap anymore what they do here for hunting loads . Bigger fish to fry like having a gun to shoot anything out of IMO

But when this ban spreads to clubs and ranges and if we still have guns that is when the goose will be cooked and it will happen here if they enforce it into hunting upland

LOL let me guess grouse are finding and eating lead shot.

Just watch the numbers of shooters drop out and give up the sport when the clubs are forced to close

My only word on this

Cheers
 
#16 ·
While I was reading all the replies on this subject I am now confused more than ever. It has always been my understanding that all pump and semi-auto shotguns were to have a plug restricting these firearms to 3 shells in total no matter what type of hunting you were doing. In addition, the regulations for hunting was the law all across Canada. Has something changed that I'm not aware of?

With regard to the lead out comments, our Government is getting sucked into all the environmental crap put out by the anti this anti that crowd. All the hunters in Nova Scotia couldn't cause harm to out woodlands for the next three hundred years by using lead. The Government needs to focus on the dire things going on in our province, like the 20,000 in poverty and the 30,000 without a family doctor just to name several.
 
#17 ·
While I was reading all the replies on this subject I am now confused more than ever. It has always been my understanding that all pump and semi-auto shotguns were to have a plug restricting these firearms to 3 shells in total no matter what type of hunting you were doing. In addition, the regulations for hunting was the law all across Canada. Has something changed that I'm not aware of?

With regard to the lead out comments, our Government is getting sucked into all the environmental crap put out by the anti this anti that crowd. All the hunters in Nova Scotia couldn't cause harm to out woodlands for the next three hundred years by using lead. The Government needs to focus on the dire things going on in our province, like the 20,000 in poverty and the 30,000 without a family doctor just to name several.
max 3 shells for migratory bird hunting - a federal law, so all across Canada.

the Provinces/Territories each have their own hunting laws - they cannot change the migratory bird reg of 3 shells max. because its a federal law. However, they can make laws for other critters. So, in NS, you can have more than 3 shells while hunting other game - except on federal managed areas.
 
#19 ·
Personally I don't see the need for ANY game animal including coyotes , cripes even my rifles are only loaded with 3 rounds in the mags , my son questioned me on this different times , if your rifle is properly sighted in the first one should suffice , second one only if really needed 3rd is jûst there as a backup , even my .22s have no more than 3-4 rounds in them .

As for the plug issue in pumps and semis , I was always told it's to be or in , I've never even considered taking it out for coyote , then again most times if it's in range it's usually dead first or second shot , timing , shot placement and patience just pays off . Never pays off rushing the shot and with those animals , don't need to educate them anymore than already a pretty smart critter .
 
#20 ·
Bryne is an absolute idiot. As fisheries minister he attempted to be rid catch and release salmon fishing from NL and even implemented an unenforceable 10 fish released per season limit. Meanwhile, the guy was pushing hard for aquaculture in regions of the Provence where salmon stocks are considered at risk. He tried his hardest to manage salmon provincially when they are federally managed. The result of this finagling delayed the effective opening of the season by a week because he claimed the licences were not yet printed due to the reduced salmon tags that season. Meanwhile when licences were finally sold, they came with the standard 6 tags (only 1 was valid) and last years regs, falsifying his claims. This caused lots of issues for outfitters and guides. A few of the provinces fishing shops closed due to the after effects of a lot of his BS. Yeah sure he hunts, but in NL that's nothing special. If there is a member of government that I want representing outdoors people, he's the last one on the list.
 
#21 ·
Well this is why when we do Hunter Ed and CFSC courses I make it a point to tell everyone that they should not remove the plug and if they buy a new or used semi or pump to check that the plug is in place. Even here in NS people have been charged thinking that their shotguns met the Federal Migratory regulations when hunting ducks or geese only to learn that their firearms upon inspection did not.

I had a former student call me about 3 yrs ago, he was given a warning he was hunting grouse and woodcock the plug was missing from his father's old wingmaster.The CO at that time said the chances for a conviction were slim and he would not want to see a young hunter who was not trying to break any laws get in trouble. The CO had no problem with the plug not being in the gun if only Grouse or other NS small game were being hunted the problem as was explained to me was Woodcock being Migratory and the regulations surrounding the number of shells permitted.

So as many of you have stated do not remove the plug and if not sure check to see and replace the plug if needed. In NS and no doubt other places the Federal Migratory Regs do not always mirror the provincial regs and vice versa. A popular pheasant area down in the valley is Bellise Marsh it is also a regulated Federal Migratory bird area all hunting there must meet the Federal Regulations for non toxic shot and the carrying capacity for shotguns. There is a section in our regulation booklet that points this out. This is one of many reasons I tell people to read that booklet every year and like it or not the day is coming when for hunting small game in NS non toxic shot will be required if for no other reason then it aligns itself with the Federal Migratory Regulations.
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well this is why when we do Hunter Ed and CFSC courses I make it a point to tell everyone that they should not remove the plug and if they buy a new or used semi or pump to check that the plug is in place. Even here in NS people have been charged thinking that their shotguns met the Federal Migratory regulations when hunting ducks or geese only to learn that their firearms upon inspection did not.

I had a former student call me about 3 yrs ago, he was given a warning he was hunting grouse and woodcock the plug was missing from his father's old wingmaster.The CO at that time said the chances for a conviction were slim and he would not want to see a young hunter who was not trying to break any laws get in trouble. The CO had no problem with the plug not being in the gun if only Grouse or other NS small game were being hunted the problem as was explained to me was Woodcock being Migratory and the regulations surrounding the number of shells permitted.

So as many of you have stated do not remove the plug and if not sure check to see and replace the plug if needed. In NS and no doubt other places the Federal Migratory Regs do not always mirror the provincial regs and vice versa. A popular pheasant area down in the valley is Bellise Marsh it is also a regulated Federal Migratory bird area all hunting there must meet the Federal Regulations for non toxic shot and the carrying capacity for shotguns. There is a section in our regulation booklet that points this out. This is one of many reasons I tell people to read that booklet every year and like it or not the day is coming when for hunting small game in NS non toxic shot will be required if for no other reason then it aligns itself with the Federal Migratory Regulations.
WOW no wonder we are in such a mess when the CFO doesn't know the laws. Slim chances. I guess I would have made his life hell with the issued warning. Woodcock again another BS line he gave you. I sure hope NO ONE is Teaching the kids this BS The regs are pretty clear. Oh yes on the steel shot aligns like I said heard that first in 1998 so IMO misinformation being given out by those that should know better that it is happening soon. On the plug many are shipped new with the plug out and has to be installed by the new owner. As hard as that is for me to believe many cannot do that based on how many I still put in from time to time for people. But yes I agree with you 100% it would be simpler if installed factory and left in place but one cannot assume it is

Cheers

Shot

  • non-toxic shot must be used to hunt all migratory game birds, except for woodcock.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/migratory-game-bird-hunting/regulations-provincial-territorial-summaries/nova-scotia.html

Also on the fed side every province is slightly different in some areas so not really 100% the same right across canada

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/migratory-game-bird-hunting/regulations-provincial-territorial-summaries.html
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well this is why when we do Hunter Ed and CFSC courses I make it a point to tell everyone that they should not remove the plug and if they buy a new or used semi or pump to check that the plug is in place. Even here in NS people have been charged thinking that their shotguns met the Federal Migratory regulations when hunting ducks or geese only to learn that their firearms upon inspection did not.

I had a former student call me about 3 yrs ago, he was given a warning he was hunting grouse and woodcock the plug was missing from his father's old wingmaster.The CO at that time said the chances for a conviction were slim and he would not want to see a young hunter who was not trying to break any laws get in trouble. The CO had no problem with the plug not being in the gun if only Grouse or other NS small game were being hunted the problem as was explained to me was Woodcock being Migratory and the regulations surrounding the number of shells permitted.

So as many of you have stated do not remove the plug and if not sure check to see and replace the plug if needed. In NS and no doubt other places the Federal Migratory Regs do not always mirror the provincial regs and vice versa. A popular pheasant area down in the valley is Bellise Marsh it is also a regulated Federal Migratory bird area all hunting there must meet the Federal Regulations for non toxic shot and the carrying capacity for shotguns. There is a section in our regulation booklet that points this out. This is one of many reasons I tell people to read that booklet every year and like it or not the day is coming when for hunting small game in NS non toxic shot will be required if for no other reason then it aligns itself with the Federal Migratory Regulations.
Some excellent points , stated , as for our booklet I read it every year cover to cover so nothing is missed out upon, I look at it this way if federal regs state one thing and provincial state another I'll follow the Federal and stay on safe side , as most times federal regs go one step above the provincial and keeps you legal on both side of the spectrum , why would someone chance it to begin with . But then again there's lots out there hunting without licences of any kind , we seen that recently in the rabbit hunting incident , where a hunter was shot and believed to be a rabbit , shooter had no firearms licence , I'd be betting man he had no small game or habitat stamp either . So as they say can't fix stupid !

As for having Firearms shipped plug installed , it's quite simple it's a person's due diligence to inspect every new or used firearm they buy to check it is safe to use , follows all laws that it falls under and know that it's been checked over for anything it may or may not need to be fixed or adjusted to use in a wildlife habitat .
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
Most I have done is because guys are either are scared to take their firearms apart or don't own snap ring plyers

I still remember the old man when I would get a new gun. He would take it all apart and say here put it back together if you want to shoot it

Different today I guess or OMG dirty grease don't touch that LOL.

Rems have been in with the owners manual since I can remember even in the 60's when the plugs were wood

aPuotjT.jpg
 
#25 ·
I guess I am the odd man out! Back in 1967 I bought a Ithaca XL900 in 20 gauge with a 30" full choke

barrell for rabbits and grouse. Rabbits were plentiful back then and the first thing I did was pull the plug

and to this day has never been put back in. That gun has never failed me and I hunted in some

bad weather.
 
#26 ·
I guess I am the odd man out! Back in 1967 I bought a Ithaca XL900 in 20 gauge with a 30" full choke

barrell for rabbits and grouse. Rabbits were plentiful back then and the first thing I did was pull the plug

and to this day has never been put back in. That gun has never failed me and I hunted in some

bad weather.
They were a well made gun and one in 20ga would not last long for sale on nutz

Cheers
 
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