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Finally Found Something That Works...


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#1 Joyrider

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 07:04 PM

A few months ago I splurged and got a new rifle. No reason other than I like shooting and improving and while I loved my old gun and it’s memories, I had reached the limit of its accuracy.

So I got a stainless tikka with a set trigger. I really like it, but I had a hard time finding shells it liked. A really hard time! I tried about 12 different factory loads and found one that was ok, but not what I was looking for.

So I went back to hand loading - again lots of different combos but was still not happy. After literally hundreds of shots (close to 400 I think) I found a combo that worked. I only had 12 primers left so could only do one 4 shot group after I got the scope adjusted for the load. It was really windy where I was and I was able to get an 11/16 group, I think I might be able to do 1/2 inch with a proper bench and a nice day (dreaming...?)

 

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91573655_10157997177675449_1928364930638

 

 

91510754_10157997177660449_1970281801402

 

 


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#2 Joyrider

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Posted 31 March 2020 - 07:04 PM

I forgot the reloading info - the gun likes the max loads in the 3 powders I tried, that was always the best result.

I thought Varget would be the ticket - evberyone seems to love it, but CFE223 was the powder it liked, maybe because it has higher velociety and that's what this gun likes....?  It's REALLY picky!

So the final was winchester brass (range brass) , CIL Br-2 primers, 48.3gr CFE223 and 165gr hornady SST on top.

P.S.  If anyone has some once fired winchester brass I'm looking for some more.  :-)


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#3 KEVIN

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 07:25 AM

Normally CFE is used by high volume shooters, 223, 243,...gopher shooters and varmint devestaters. but however, seeing you fired 400 rounds to come up with a decent load, you qualify...lol 

 

165 gr bullet means you have a  30 cal in some variant...308 / 30-06 / 300WM ?

 

Lots of powders I would have considered first before the CFE..esp IMR4350...4831..or ...H 4350...4831

 

ps...the wind will move your bullets that much and more @ 100 yds Rob !


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If you take your kids hunting,.....You won't have to go hunting for your kids.....KS/85

#4 greybeard

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 07:48 AM

Nice gun and good group, I am going to guess 308 win by the max. load of CFE223


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Insanity/Hunting...doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different outcome.

#5 Joyrider

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 08:43 AM

Normally CFE is used by high volume shooters, 223, 243,...gopher shooters and varmint devestaters. but however, seeing you fired 400 rounds to come up with a decent load, you qualify...lol 

 

165 gr bullet means you have a  30 cal in some variant...308 / 30-06 / 300WM ?

 

Lots of powders I would have considered first before the CFE..esp IMR4350...4831..or ...H 4350...4831

 

ps...the wind will move your bullets that much and more @ 100 yds Rob !

 

Hi!  Yes, 308 sorry.  :-)  I wanted something common although my eye kept wanting to the 6.5PRC I must say.  :-)  I was really looking for a 7mm08, I don't know why but I really like that cartridge.

Anyway, the right gun came along in 308 so new dies and away I go!

I tried Varget and IMR4350.  With both I got "ok" groups.  A couple under an inch, but in terms of ability to consistently bang out a group the best I could count on was about 1.25 with though.  Again, fine for hunting of course, but I (for no reason whatsoever!) wanted to be able to consistently shoot under 3/4"   

I had the CFE here (I use it in my 204) and saw some people having good luck so thought I'd give it a try.   I am glad I did.  :-)  

I'll keep playing with it - I'd like to try heavier bullets.  Turns out this gun HATES 150's.  Since it shoots 165 so much better I'd like to try a heavier one and see how it does.  When I try heavier I'll try the 4350 and varget again since I have them.  :-)

So far this has all been at 100Y.  Once I get a chance and can shoot again (my last primers and that 3 groups under 3/4" on the last day of march!) I'll try it at longer distances.  Hopefully the MOA holds - again I assume the heavier bullet would help.

Maybe some copper one to try at some pt too.  I read some people find them really accurate....?

Anyway, it's all a process.  :-)  An excuse to get out.   By the time I settle on a final combo I'll need a new barrel at this rate!  ha ha  Luckily it seems to be a fairly soft shooter.  It came with a muzzle break but I don't bother with it.

Re: the wind, I was shooting into it so I am hoping it wasn't having a massive impact, but I am certainly looking forward to some calm shooting to see.

This is the gun - I got it from a guy who only fired a few shots (he says six, condition was as new).  I had a bushnell 6500 that shook it's reticle loose, this has the replacement Force on it, I really like it a lot - more than the 6500.  It has a nice MOA reticle which I find really useful compared to the MIL reticle on the old 6500.
https://www.cabelas....lt-action-rifle

I had to sand the stock a bit to completely free float it - it was touching on one side, that's all I've done to it.

Thanks for the tips!


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#6 3macs1

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 09:01 AM

Looking at that I sure hope you were shooting with your off hand :)


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#7 KEVIN

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 09:21 AM

I had NO LUCK with the copper at ALL Rob !!   Tried it in two rifles...prolly 20 different loads...absolute sheite !!

BTW...IF, you're going to try the copper...follow your manuals...reduce your loads to the min to start...they have higher pressures due to constriction reduction in the barrel. 


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#8 3macs1

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 09:55 AM

I had NO LUCK with the copper at ALL Rob !!   Tried it in two rifles...prolly 20 different loads...absolute sheite !!

BTW...IF, you're going to try the copper...follow your manuals...reduce your loads to the min to start...they have higher pressures due to constriction reduction in the barrel. 

Same here with the copper 

Cheers


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#9 1NSH Dave

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 10:11 AM

I would give a different bullet a try as well. My dad has a tikka t3 in 308 and it was not the most consistent with those sst rounds. He’s using the Sierra gameking BTHP with much better consistency.
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Time to start hunting them coyotes, I think!!!!

#10 beaverhunter

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 11:18 AM

damn I miss shooting, need to get out


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I remember watching bambi for the first time when I was little and my favourite part
was when they killed bambi's mother because I knew somwhere the hunters
family was eating good that night never understood why they made him out to be the
bad guy.

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but We are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works.

Gotta Love The Nova Scotia Federation of Anti Hunters


#11 Joyrider

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 12:05 PM

Same here with the copper 

Cheers

 

I had NO LUCK with the copper at ALL Rob !!   Tried it in two rifles...prolly 20 different loads...absolute sheite !!

BTW...IF, you're going to try the copper...follow your manuals...reduce your loads to the min to start...they have higher pressures due to constriction reduction in the barrel. 

 

 

Same here with the copper 

Cheers

 

Thanks to you both!  You may have just saved me a ton of frustration.  :-)


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#12 Joyrider

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 12:05 PM

I would give a different bullet a try as well. My dad has a tikka t3 in 308 and it was not the most consistent with those sst rounds. He’s using the Sierra gameking BTHP with much better consistency.

 

Oh thanks!!!   I will give them a try!  :-)


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#13 1NSH Dave

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Posted 01 April 2020 - 01:43 PM

If you want a cheaper round for practice I also highly recommend the Speer BTSP 165gr. They are very inexpensive and I have gotten some very impressive groups with them. My best so far was something around 2.75” at 400yd. Pretty sure they’re still under 40$ for the box. Way less than the Sierra or hornady rounds.
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Time to start hunting them coyotes, I think!!!!

#14 KEVIN

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:14 AM

Rob, I've had big changes in accuracy in some of my load developement by just swapping out my primer. Over the years I've had the best and most consistent luck with Winchester primers...WSR...WLR...WLRM's.

 

PS.....If you want to try some out, I have a tray of 100 here with your name on em. 


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If you take your kids hunting,.....You won't have to go hunting for your kids.....KS/85

#15 3macs1

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:24 AM

Rob, I've had big changes in accuracy in some of my load developement by just swapping out my primer. Over the years I've had the best and most consistent luck with Winchester primers...WSR...WLR...WLRM's.

 

PS.....If you want to try some out, I have a tray of 100 here with your name on em. 

One must be real careful doing that I never do

A different manufacturer of the same primer  can create overall pressure increases above approved standards If not published and tested I don't switch

 Take care


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#16 KEVIN

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:46 AM

Joe, you can substitute any large rifle primer for any other manufacturer large rifle primer...same as the small rifle and magnum rifle primers. Millions of reloaders also use magnum primers in standard calibers to get a faster more complete powder burn with the longer extruded powders.

 

**None of my manuals say to only use a certain primer for a certain bullet or powder/...EXCEPT SHOTGUNS where you can see the difference in CUP'S in the manual

 

I read some of rocky raabs stuff over the years...they had a list of the burn rates and cup thickness' tests done.


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If you take your kids hunting,.....You won't have to go hunting for your kids.....KS/85

#17 3macs1

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:54 AM

Joe, you can substitute any large rifle primer for any other manufacturer large rifle primer...same as the small rifle and magnum rifle primers. Millions of reloaders also use magnum primers in standard calibers to get a faster more complete powder burn with the longer extruded powders.

 

**None of my manuals say to only use a certain primer for a certain bullet or powder/...EXCEPT SHOTGUNS where you can see the difference in CUP'S in the manual

 

I read some of rocky raabs stuff over the years...they had a list of the burn rates and cup thickness' tests done.

Not without starting over and reworking the load to do it correctly IMO.

They are not a direct interchange

 Shotgun especially steel reloads can be dam right dangerous as some rifle

The old man would cut my fingers off if I did

 But hey what ever works for you and you are comfortable with. My knowledge on rifle and handgun reloading practices is old now and limited more every day that passes 

As you can see by some of the bullets still in my stash LOL.Some I took from moms which would have been 35 years ago :( Christ the pic alone is 9 years old now LOL

 

Cheers

 

https://loaddata.com...nd-Pressures/13

 

AkbXIv7.jpg


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#18 KEVIN

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 11:32 AM

 
 
"QUOTE"

If you’re lucky, continued firing of over-warm handloads will result only in certain parts stretching, rather than breaking. Headspace, for instance, might grow because the bolt lugs are stressed. If you’re unlucky, the rifle’s action can come apart all at once. This happened a few years ago to a friend who was fond of loading rounds beyond normal velocities—and hence pressures. He got lucky. The right side of the action blew, sending the heavy scope over his left shoulder and into the side of a building over 30 feet away—instead of into his face. HE OBSERVED NO “PRESSURE SIGNS” BEFORE THE RIFLE CAME APART but had been shooting hot loads in the same varmint rifle for over a year. "ENDQUOTE"

 

**no warning signs or not, what did he expect, continuously shooting over pressure loads ?? STUPIDITY AT ITS FINEST IMHO !!

 

I'm thinking you took a pic of everything you ever owned or did back in the day....LMFAO

Sooo Joe..how did you know if your load was showing signs of overpressure wayyy back in the day, if those old ways are/were no good ?

Regardless of his opinion, that's how I learned to look for pressure. It's well documented by some famous shooter and writers too. ..in fact, I still do it that way...look for flattened primers...sticky bolt..."smiley faces" on the case rim...and primer metal back flow into the firing pin hole.

If any of those show...I STOP !.. I can put up with a few flattened primers for a hunting load if need be..it's usually only 1 or 2 shots per season after load development...lol 

 Heres the burn rate chart for primers. IF I HAVE TO (( and I never do since I've gone to Winchester exclusively))  I'll sub any mag for any mag and any standard for any standard primer.

 

Primer Burn rate ..fastest to slowest


Fed 215 .......this is the hottest burning primer...any load calling for this will take any magnum primer
WLRM ...........same thing..these and the Feds are lamost identical
CCI 250
Rem 9 ½ M
WLR...this and the fed 210 are almost identical in burn rate and are interchangeable
F210 ....same as above
CCI BR2
CCI 200
Rem 9 ½

Small Rifle Primers

Fed 205
Rem 7 ½
WSRM
Fed 200
WSR
CCI BR4
CCI 400
Rem 6 1/2

Rocky Raab


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If you take your kids hunting,.....You won't have to go hunting for your kids.....KS/85

#19 KEVIN

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 11:34 AM

Already, we just had a power outage here for 60 mins  !!! just came back on


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If you take your kids hunting,.....You won't have to go hunting for your kids.....KS/85

#20 3macs1

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 11:45 AM

That link was just one I grabbed quick. Lots out there

 This one do any better for you

https://gundigest.co...ure-differences

 

 

On the pictures there is a story there. My daughter was very young at the time and she wanted a new camera to be like her mom

I told her I didnot have any extra money right now but looked up from my desk in the basement and said I would put this wooden spoked buick steering wheel on e-bay for you that was hanging on the wall and what ever it sold for you could have the money for a new camera

I knew the wheel was somewhat rare and off a 66. I paid 10 bucks for it some years back at the sussex flea market and figured it would go for 50 bucks US

Well it sold and went to california and when it was all said and done I had 1200 US in my hand looking at her

 She said daddy we made a deal so yes she got one nice dam canon set up better than my wife had at the time sad.png

So for years one could not move here with out pictures being taken, the old dogs would run when they seen her coming LOL

Now I have to beg her for a pic to be taken sad.png

Take care


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