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The world like never before is having stuff assembled by incompetent people. Not just me. I am sure some had ammo not fire over the years. Not enough people working and what is being made is being fired together with no quality control.
Has nothing to do with incompetent people. machines do 99.5% of ammo manufacture and assembly and quality checks more than there ever has been
Do this kind of volume at theses speeds and tell me some will not be 100% but still work.
Good watch IMO the tour part . I had the opportunity to tour the remington plant some years ago and it blew me away
 

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Has nothing to do with incompetent people. machines do 99.5% of ammo manufacture and assembly and quality checks more than there ever has been
Do this kind of volume at theses speeds and tell me some will not be 100% but still work.
Good watch IMO the tour part . I had the opportunity to tour the remington plant some years ago and it blew me away
I will have to look through my ammo and take some pics for you of todays quality. Lots of machines not programmed properly by incompetent people turning out garbage. Maybe years ago one was not as particular, but I never really seen as much as I do now with factory ammo. Lately I have seen the cheap plastic sleeves that hold the ammo busted from being dropped. Remember when they were tightly packed in a hard styrofoam tray.
 

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I will have to look through my ammo and take some pics for you of todays quality. Lots of machines not programmed properly by incompetent people turning out garbage.
BS Buy quality ammo not bottom of the line crap like sold at most box stores and one will be fine. these plants are QA certified to 9001 standards which is far from easy to obtain I did a lot of work in the mines with this standard since the mines would only buy from 9001 certified companies
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I will have to look through my ammo and take some pics for you of todays quality. Lots of machines not programmed properly by incompetent people turning out garbage. Maybe years ago one was not as particular, but I never really seen as much as I do now with factory ammo. Lately I have seen the cheap plastic sleeves that hold the ammo busted from being dropped. Remember when they were tightly packed in a hard styrofoam tray.
Dropped by WHO?? the shipper maybe?? ever think of that
 

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Michelin was ISO 9001 certified (not sure what they are now), and you wouldn’t believe some of the crap that made it out of the plant. More than once, people had to fly to certain warehouses to look for tires. Probably more to do with incompetent machines than people. Just because a company is 9001 certified, doesn’t mean there is no faulty product going out the door.
 

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Michelin was ISO 9001 certified (not sure what they are now), and you wouldn’t believe some of the crap that made it out of the plant. More than once, people had to fly to certain warehouses to look for tires. Probably more to do with incompetent machines than people. Just because a company is 9001 certified, doesn’t mean there is no faulty product going out the door.
It sure was and still is. Nothing or any QA system is 100% but 9001 is one of the best out there we worked under it also in the mines and BS 5750 the UK version . If you have worked under 9001 you know issues are caught very quickly, corrected and a ton of changes made so the same issue never happens again and a large 100% QA team is on staff to make sure of that.

To say ammo being made at the factory is crap due to no QA or unqualified people is BS worn equipment out of tolerances is where most ammo manufacturers see issues
 

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There is another thing going on here also something many think doesn't exist but does factory seconds in ammo and bullets . Most companies clearly ID them as seconds like fereral, nosler, hornady etc but winchester and remington never has as two examples and normally sell these to box stores for reduced prices
I have noslers here some where marked as such and this guy mentioned fererals
Comment for reference: no I am not trying to sell this. I went to pickup some CCi yesterday and noticed our local shop had a bunch of these seconds on the shelf for about $40 a box. I put about 300 or so through my 15-22 with zero issues. Really like the price point on this Federal ammo. Never had any issues running any Federal ammo of any kind and this is the first time I saw factory seconds of this brand.

Yep theses sierra were sold as acceptable factory seconds to be used UNreal IMO
 

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BS Buy quality ammo not bottom of the line crap like sold at most box stores and one will be fine. these plants are QA certified to 9001 standards which is far from easy to obtain I did a lot of work in the mines with this standard since the mines would only buy from 9001 certified companies
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3maccs you know the state of ammo, be lucky one can find anything on the shelf. Crappy ammo is closing in on $100 a box. Not finding premium ammo here and who could afford if you did?
 

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3maccs you know the state of ammo, be lucky one can find anything on the shelf. Crappy ammo is closing in on $100 a box. Not finding premium ammo here and who could afford if you did?
Agree and also think but have no proof the good stuff is staying in the US now and any with imperfections gets exported out to like canada so quality is going to be questionable for many years yet here
 

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It sure was and still is. Nothing or any QA system is 100% but 9001 is one of the best out there we worked under it also in the mines and BS 5750 the UK version . If you have worked under 9001 you know issues are caught very quickly, corrected and a ton of changes made so the same issue never happens again and a large 100% QA team is on staff to make sure of that.

To say ammo being made at the factory is crap due to no QA or unqualified people is BS worn equipment out of tolerances is where most ammo manufacturers see issues
It sure was and still is. Nothing or any QA system is 100% but 9001 is one of the best out there we worked under it also in the mines and BS 5750 the UK version . If you have worked under 9001 you know issues are caught very quickly, corrected and a ton of changes made so the same issue never happens again and a large 100% QA team is on staff to make sure of that.

To say ammo being made at the factory is crap due to no QA or unqualified people is BS worn equipment out of tolerances is where most ammo manufacturers see issues
The military had a QA team for every process at one time years ago assembling air craft etc. Multiple people had to check the end product and sig it off. Nothing got missed. It was stopped. Anyone could do the job and no one checked it. Procedures were then written down in books to follow that no one followed and for months things many times went out the door incorrectly. Every once in a while some office dude would show up to confirm with the supervisor that things were being followed. If the person who wrote the guide lines as part of this AF9000 was clueless to the procedure and so was the shop supervisor the whole process was flawed. One of my reasons for getting out. It got stupid and scary with what was being assembled.
 

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Not my point. You could once bounce a box of ammo of the floor and the inner sleeve would protect them not now.
So there is a packaging issue??
The military had a QA team for every process at one time years ago assembling air craft etc. Multiple people had to check the end product and sig it off. Nothing got missed. It was stopped. Anyone could do the job and no one checked it. Procedures were then written down in books to follow that no one followed and for months things many times went out the door incorrectly. Every once in a while some office dude would show up to confirm with the supervisor that things were being followed. If the person who wrote the guide lines as part of this AF9000 was clueless to the procedure and so was the shop supervisor the whole process was flawed. One of my reasons for getting out. It got stupid and scary with what was being assembled.
Computers and complex machinery have taken care of the issues you discuss and why the military don't build air craft today :) Ask someone who works at pratt what their QA program is like making air craft engine parts etc Like I said no QA system is 100 % but most are very close also 9001 certified Pratt are
 

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So there is a packaging issue??

Computers and complex machinery have taken care of the issues you discuss and why the military don't build air craft today :) Ask someone who works at pratt what their QA program is like making air craft engine parts etc Like I said no QA system is 100 % but most are very close also 9001 certified Pratt are
Your forgetting my son took a job there 6 months ago, thats all I will say 😀
 

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Your forgetting my son took a job there 6 months ago, thats all I will say 😀
Ya and you are forgetting my BIL and sister have been there 36 ?? years:p and two of their sons work there plus many of the guys I graduated from mechanical tech with and keep in touch with retired from there in the last 3 years since they hired entire classes in those days but not ME :( ( sister made sure of that) and their third son is with kellys getting shifts there now and waiting to start the tech program this sept so all three will be there eventually. Sister is upset since they didnot get degrees like her but are making great money with great benefits and better than most degrees will get you today imo
If you ever get a chance to go through the plant I suggest you do far from what you did and seen in the military for QA
My sister ( unvaccinated :D:D and a tree hugger) was directly associated with the QA group daily for years since she was in the IT support group there in fact until covid I think or just before when she switched to cybersecurity
Is this the son that you said could not get hired there for various reasons but seem to remember an unfair hiring practice?? like 50 qualified interviewed and they took NONE or maybe I am mixed up but know 100% family already working there means something when they hire which I have no issue with since the mines were the same
One of the questions in the interview was WHO is your father and what pit does he work at :D
Any way congrats to your son they are a good company to work for which is rare today
 

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Michelin was ISO 9001 certified (not sure what they are now), and you wouldn’t believe some of the crap that made it out of the plant. More than once, people had to fly to certain warehouses to look for tires. Probably more to do with incompetent machines than people. Just because a company is 9001 certified, doesn’t mean there is no faulty product going out the door.
Very true! ISO certification really just means an organisation has quality systems in place to the standard, not that their quality is perfect or that they always follow their quality procedures.
 

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Ya and you are forgetting my BIL and sister have been there 36 ?? years:p and two of their sons work there plus many of the guys I graduated from mechanical tech with and keep in touch with retired from there in the last 3 years since they hired entire classes in those days but not ME :( ( sister made sure of that) and their third son is with kellys getting shifts there now and waiting to start the tech program this sept so all three will be there eventually. Sister is upset since they didnot get degrees like her but are making great money with great benefits and better than most degrees will get you today imo
If you ever get a chance to go through the plant I suggest you do far from what you did and seen in the military for QA
My sister ( unvaccinated :D:D and a tree hugger) was directly associated with the QA group daily for years since she was in the IT support group there in fact until covid I think or just before when she switched to cybersecurity
Is this the son that you said could not get hired there for various reasons but seem to remember an unfair hiring practice?? like 50 qualified interviewed and they took NONE or maybe I am mixed up but know 100% family already working there means something when they hire which I have no issue with since the mines were the same
One of the questions in the interview was WHO is your father and what pit does he work at :D
Any way congrats to your son they are a good company to work for which is rare today
No not my son Joe, they actually came looking for him. They had four hiring sessions last year which my brothers son went to all. Never got hired and he is the main supervisor of a big machine shop in Dartmouth. We found that very odd, but then again my son worked out west at a machine shop, and one in Windsor. Who knows what they look at on there resume? Wish some affordable house were up that way instead of driving over 2 hours each day. All your family working there sounds like a liberal thing.:) My brother has worked there as long as your sister:) I have been through there years ago. I did the maintenance for many years on their engines and gearboxes when the military had twin hueys,
 

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No not my son Joe, they actually came looking for him. They had four hiring sessions last year which my brothers son went to all. Never got hired and he is the main supervisor of a big machine shop in Dartmouth. We found that very odd, but then again my son worked out west at a machine shop, and one in Windsor. Who knows what they look at on there resume? Wish some affordable house were up that way instead of driving over 2 hours each day. All your family working there sounds like a liberal thing.:) My brother has worked there as long as your sister:) I have been through there years ago. I did the maintenance for many years on their engines and gearboxes when the military had twin hueys,
Agree My daughters best friend as I have shared before is an real estate agent here and hopes this change they put in place for stopping some foreign buyers this month from buying makes a difference down the road and prices get back to more reasonable. The lady from vietnam that bought my moms house 3 years ago has since bought two more right next to it and for crazy money one should have went for like 80 max and she bought it for 189 . moms sold for 150 before thyings went nuts and is now worth 250 they say and nothing was done Crazy
I don't think my sister even votes if she does sure doesn't talk about politics christ I would be happy if we could get her
to use real underarm and shave her pits yep two degrees and a masters and be lucky to tie her shoes I think some days but off the charts book smart
 

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Discussion Starter · #179 ·
Back on topic, not even much ammo online anymore, anyone shooting these days are either shooting their hoards or rolling their own from their already bought supplies, I would have thought 2022 hunting season would have been really bad for some folks finding ammo, I am guessing 2023 will be a lot worse.
 

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Back on topic, not even much ammo online anymore, anyone shooting these days are either shooting their hoards or rolling their own from their already bought supplies, I would have thought 2022 hunting season would have been really bad for some folks finding ammo, I am guessing 2023 will be a lot worse.
Most have cut back their shooting due to costs of ammo and supplies to reload when they can find it from reading posts from other parts of canada and hunting this year it seems here gas alone has killed a lot of it this year. Many hunting close to home and not even going to their normal spots. Like one guy said 120 bucks a trip Joe just for gas I cannot do that like I normally would twice week
 
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