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Moose survey results

5K views 77 replies 14 participants last post by  beaverhunter 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I heard this years draw is "bull only". I'm assuming all zones ??? There will soon be just cows running around and getting bred back to their offspring. Best bet ... shut it down completely to EVERYONE for 3-5 years, and let the numbers build back up again. The culls did nothing but hurt the numbers. As long as their precious plants were saved ... that's all that matters I guess.
 
#3 ·
I heard this years draw is "bull only". I'm assuming all zones ??? There will soon be just cows running around and getting bred back to their offspring. Best bet ... shut it down completely to EVERYONE for 3-5 years, and let the numbers build back up again. The culls did nothing but hurt the numbers. As long as their precious plants were saved ... that's all that matters I guess.
Says that in the document tim posted so 100%
 
#12 ·
Bull only was long over due , IMHO it should have been rotated 2 outta the 5 zones for everyone . As for enforcement , not going get into what my thoughts are there as I know a few C.O s, and what I hear from the other side of things or what takes place at the Highlands Rd entery way . With both natives and non natives , and yes I have been up there over the yrs and not typing away from a arm chair , I've seen heard and watched , even reported some of the B.S the moose hunt brings out in all people alike . Very simple that hunt brought out greed in so many and should never been developed from the original 1 Shooter 1 Companion / 200 tags . It was more civil and it was more policed and enforced by both DNR & RCMP back then , no fekking around in those days .

So many are shot every yr by locals alone , even back then , there was time I could go to any one of those northern communities and be offered Moose meat , go moose hunting in their back yard . The numbers were bound to come to a crash sooner or later . Just took 30 + yrs to do it
 
#13 ·
Bull only was long over due , IMHO it should have been rotated 2 outta the 5 zones for everyone . As for enforcement , not going get into what my thoughts are there as I know a few C.O s, and what I hear from the other side of things or what takes place at the Highlands Rd entery way . With both natives and non natives , and yes I have been up there over the yrs and not typing away from a arm chair , I've seen heard and watched , even reported some of the B.S the moose hunt brings out in all people alike . Very simple that hunt brought out greed in so many and should never been developed from the original 1 Shooter 1 Companion / 200 tags . It was more civil and it was more policed and enforced by both DNR & RCMP back then , no fekking around in those days .

So many are shot every yr by locals alone , even back then , there was time I could go to any one of those northern communities and be offered Moose meat , go moose hunting in their back yard . The numbers were bound to come to a crash sooner or later . Just took 30 + yrs to do it
Bucks only has done nothing for the deer herd improving?
 
#15 · (Edited)
Despite all the items discussed and are all indeed factors BUT all have been going on since day ONE yet the moose despite all of this have continued to grow the herd numbers but got to a point there was not enough food to keep that size herd going That they could not overcome
Anyone up there in the last 5/10 years can clearly see the damage they have done in some areas trying to stay alive in the harsh winters The cull was a very poor decision since nature was taking care of itself but at it's own pace not accelerated like now Remember the culls have been going on since 2015 also Parks canada saying there is no lack of food is pure BS food sources also impacts calving rates BIG time If there was lots of food why the cull ???
The amount of forest needed to keep this size herd was just NOT there so now we are where we are at
My 2 cents on it right or wrong Maybe David will chime in since no one here has the experience he has on this subject or spent more time in the highlands
Cheers
 
#16 ·
Early when the numbers were good many old farms (orchards, shrubs were eaten to what they could reach). Many believed at that time that it played a role in the drop in the deer numbers as there was nothing they could reach. As some areas appeared to be having deer come back lately it was a signal that the moose were decreasing in numbers.
 
#18 ·
Like everything on the cape, boom and bust.
It was coming, the writing was there for all to see, if they took the time to look.
For the first time in 28years im not applying for a cb moose, it seems odd as it would be a once in a lifetime hunt but i wont live that long and should not pass up the invitation from my friend. Let someone else find the elusive cb moose.
 
#19 ·
Go to Quebec and hunt the Moose. It is beautiful country. I would absolutely take your friend up on their offer as a guide. An average size moose, cut and wrapped in waxed butcher paper will last in the freezer for two years. Two families will have no problem consuming that excellent table fare over that period of time. Start planning today my friend.
 
#20 ·
Joe, The findings of the survey does not match what we are witnessing in our section of Zone 3 with one exception: the number of calves. I would be very interested in knowing the calf count in this recent aerial survey and how this compares to the norm.

In the Summer of 2012, we came across this freshly killed calf at the Raspberry Bog. It was still warm. I'm wondering if the coyotes are playing more of a role than we think.


Grass Natural material Groundcover Terrestrial plant Grassland


For the past several years we’ve had game cams at a number of our sites for several months in the Summer up to the hunting season. We’ve had hundreds of hits at our spots. And it’s not always the same ones. We know that there are at least 25 to 30 different moose coming to our sites. But one thing that we have noticed is the very low number of calves...??? Why aren’t they showing up on our game cams...??? And I’m not talking about just one year...consistently over the past 4 or 5 years...very very few calves..?? Lots of cows young and old..but very few calves..???

I don’t think the area that we hunt is typical of Zone 3. Some of our spots are in “Wilderness Areas” and these areas are surrounded by small sections that have been logged for the past decade or so. So there’s a wide variety of secondary growth around the untouched Wilderness Areas. That along with lots of small bogs and ponds in fairly remote woods is likely creating a ‘pocket’ where moose can thrive. Just guessing..??

I can confirm what some are saying about the deer coming back. In 1994 we actually encountered deer. And then they disappeared for over 20 years. For the past 2 or 3 years we see droppings and tracks right alongside the moose tracks. We’re pretty much centrally located in Hunters’ Mountain so for them to be there likely means that they are spread out in most of Hunters’ Mountain.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Joe, The findings of the survey does not match what we are witnessing in our section of Zone 3 with one exception: the number of calves. I would be very interested in knowing the calf count in this recent aerial survey and how this compares to the norm.

In the Summer of 2012, we came across this freshly killed calf at the Raspberry Bog. It was still warm. I'm wondering if the coyotes are playing more of a role than we think.


View attachment 100769

For the past several years we’ve had game cams at a number of our sites for several months in the Summer up to the hunting season. We’ve had hundreds of hits at our spots. And it’s not always the same ones. We know that there are at least 25 to 30 different moose coming to our sites. But one thing that we have noticed is the very low number of calves...??? Why aren’t they showing up on our game cams...??? And I’m not talking about just one year...consistently over the past 4 or 5 years...very very few calves..?? Lots of cows young and old..but very few calves..???

I don’t think the area that we hunt is typical of Zone 3. Some of our spots are in “Wilderness Areas” and these areas are surrounded by small sections that have been logged for the past decade or so. So there’s a wide variety of secondary growth around the untouched Wilderness Areas. That along with lots of small bogs and ponds in fairly remote woods is likely creating a ‘pocket’ where moose can thrive. Just guessing..??

I can confirm what some are saying about the deer coming back. In 1994 we actually encountered deer. And then they disappeared for over 20 years. For the past 2 or 3 years we see droppings and tracks right alongside the moose tracks. We’re pretty much centrally located in Hunters’ Mountain so for them to be there likely means that they are spread out in most of Hunters’ Mountain.
Thanks David for chiming in your feedback is better and more accurate than any survey or study done IMO
You hit on something that I forgot about and have seen videos of it coyotes taking moose in packs up there yet DNR says they don't or did indicate that
I think you are on to something with the low calf numbers being seen and the impact coyotes are having and as you know our coyotes are closer to wolves than coyotes so no issue for them talking moose calves even adults
I would say your guess is very accurate Just know something is going on different way beyond the usual jacking , rough winters etc etc since it is happening way too fast now the decline
Thanks again
Joe
Little bit on it here
 
#34 ·
So with a Bull only hunt and if they give out 345 tags expect a success rate of <50% just based on last years hunt.

345 tags in 2022 yielded 150 Bulls and 44 Cows for a total harvest of success of 57.9 % for the settlers/occupiers.

Assume the same numbers if you take the raw numbers you are going to get a 43% success rate for 2023. I would expect it to even be lower than that. Going to be a tough hunt for whoever gets drawn.
 
#36 ·
So I gave up long ago being frustrated with how Nova Scotia and the Feds mis-manages the CB moose population. The left wing voices lead by the Feds have taken common sense out of the picture and opened up a culture of apologists.

Why are the natives given the “special or inherent rights” to the CB moose? Logical question I think? Those animals are not native to CB in fact were brought here from Alberta in 1947. Can they honestly say their ancestors hunted moose in CB? Didn’t happen. What if N.S. brought Alberta Elk , Mulies, or Antelope to CB? Non native species - would the natives be given “special inherited rights” for those animals?

Yes, they can make a claim to caribou but they were extirpated in the 1920’s. Will that be the fate of the CB moose?

So to try and get a handle on this now isn't going to happen. Will any govt at any level deal with making any changes to save the moose - common sense has taken a back seat to political correctness run amuck and it’s getting worse. Accountability and consequences for this slaughter isn't something I’ll see so my past frustration has unfortunately turned to reluctant acceptance.

And before anyone thinks to throw the “racist” term at me (an easy and cheap shot to do), I don’t care if you‘re white, black, yellow, red, pink and blue or a member of the “glug-a-mux group from Mars“, if logic and common sense regarding this hunt doesn’t happen then the CB moose will go the way of the Caribou. Natives and non- natives will kill this resource off without impunity.
 
#37 ·
So I gave up long ago being frustrated with how Nova Scotia and the Feds mis-manages the CB moose population. The left wing voices lead by the Feds have taken common sense out of the picture and opened up a culture of apologists.

Why are the natives given the “special or inherent rights” to the CB moose? Logical question I think? Those animals are not native to CB in fact were brought here from Alberta in 1947. Can they honestly say their ancestors hunted moose in CB? Didn’t happen. What if N.S. brought Alberta Elk , Mulies, or Antelope to CB? Non native species - would the natives be given “special inherited rights” for those animals?

Yes, they can make a claim to caribou but they were extirpated in the 1920’s. Will that be the fate of the CB moose?

So to try and get a handle on this now isn't going to happen. Will any govt at any level deal with making any changes to save the moose - common sense has taken a back seat to political correctness run amuck and it’s getting worse. Accountability and consequences for this slaughter isn't something I’ll see so my past frustration has unfortunately turned to reluctant acceptance.

And before anyone thinks to throw the “racist” term at me (an easy and cheap shot to do), I don’t care if you‘re white, black, yellow, red, pink and blue or a member of the “glug-a-mux group from Mars“, if logic and common sense regarding this hunt doesn’t happen then the CB moose will go the way of the Caribou. Natives and non- natives will kill this resource off without impunity.
Very well stated Gary !
 
#48 ·
The native rights have as per the original treaties has been expanded well beyond the intent of the original participants. At one time a contract of any kind was bound by “ intent” and not by the exact definition of the wording. Do you really think our ancestors who signed these treaties meant our gov would pay for university degrees !!! More like just through to high school graduates. Did the English sign the treaties or was it the French. We defeated the French so anything they agreed to should be null and void!
Now it’s totally political and EVERY politician is scared to death to go against anything the native community wants or does for fear of being labeled racist! Too many tree hugging woosies ,bleeding hearts,etc in this country. Look at the lobster fishery and all the support from white people for the natives, but the whites don’t even known all the facts! Ffs poor natives, yeah right one little band come up with $500 million to buy Clearwater! The joke’s on us tho cause that was our tax dollars!!!
 
#51 ·
We’re those natives in that article?????
DNR doesn’t make the decision they simply write out the citations the crown prosecutors office decides whether to press the charges or not.
Why bother even giving out citations when you know they won’t be processed
 
#56 ·
We’re those natives in that article?????
DNR doesn’t make the decision they simply write out the citations the crown prosecutors office decides whether to press the charges or not.
Why bother even giving out citations when you know they won’t be processed
Not talking just Natives talking all that are doing this illegally Maybe because that is what you are being paid to do and it is your job and it is NOT their decision not to if they are doing their job properly
 
#52 ·
I think it’s time to revisit these treaties and re negotiate them. How long has it been 400-500 yrs ago?????
Feds should renegotiate with the natives and should only include those 100% native blood!!!!
And the gov should negotiate the same as with federal employees, you know we have no money we can’t afford that sorry. Ffs let them go on strike!
 
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#53 ·
Kind of ironic I think We defeated the natives and the French,then declared our independence from Britain to claim this country as our own. But now the French ( Quebec ) and the natives run the country! Plus everyone still cherishes the King !!!
 
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#54 ·
Society is catering to the extremes in almost every thing possible
Its going to blow up on them when the majority (middle) start screaming for the same treatment as the elite groups.
I believe everyone is to be treated the same under or charter of rights its certainly not happening to the middle class white wo/man
 
#55 · (Edited)
Every morning it comes over the school PA system that "we are on the unceded land of the MIk'maq people"
I was at a gathering where this statement was spoken by an extremely left thinking caucasian prior to a speech being made. My response was "Give it Back".
I asked the person if they held title to a piece of land, then promptly asked why they didn't return it? Not that easy was the reply to which I responded, sure it is. You can sign that title over to the local band and right your piece of the wrong, today. Until you're willing to do that, you are paying lip service and nothing else, so you may as well not waste your breath until YOU are ready to walk the walk. A dumbfounded look followed but I have never heard that opening line since.
If indeed the person making the statement decided to step up and "right his part of the wrong" then feel free to spout off at will, with a lot more respect earned. Until then, I've got no time for it. I know I've been paying taxes to someone on behalf of the piece I have, so I'd like to know who has been fraudulently stealing my tax money?
 
#61 ·
That’s what I tell people when they start on how we stole the poor natives land! Usually tell them to pick a native family and sign over the deed for your property to them. Get some funny dazed looks from them and then they say something stupid.
We WON THE WAR as did almost every other country on this planet so why do we give so much back to those we spdefeated. Do all the other countries give back so much to those they defeated?????? Same goes for Quebec, they get too much from the feds so why did we bother fighting and defeating them ???? Only in Canada eh
 
#57 ·
In the beginning yes the natives were the ones abusing the moose, that has changed to now everyone is. I think we have moved on from the native bashing. Non natives and I mean all are as much to blame. When I say all, I mean all non natives in Nova Scotia. Everyone has got involved. Never seen a species hunted this way. Never seen such abuse of lands, land owners, etc. Every year someone gets there panties in a knot on here on poor deer hunting ethics and we discuss these slob hunters. But when it comes with the moose it seems anything goes. There literally being hunted to death. To make matters worse there a big dumb animal that knows no fear and easily taken. As much as people say what should be done, they would go tomorrow if drawn even if knowing the herd was almost extinct. I think everyone should apply and put as much effort in as possible to terminate these pests and move on. 😀
 
#71 ·
We had a house in Hermitage for a number of years, and all the driving we did ... only ever saw one small moose trotting up the shoulder of the road. Seen one caribou ... big bull standing on top of a hill. We thought it was a statue because it was so regal looking. It turned and walked away. Also, saw a sow and 3 cubs cross the road in front of us. Of all the driving we did in Newfoundland, that was the only three animal sightings.
 
#72 ·
I saw a couple moose while driving on the rock, and one time a gigantic black bear. Those bears over there might be some of the biggest around. I know that subspecies of bruin are huge on average. I know the blackies in carolinas are bigger by weight cause they just eat corn and don't hibernate, but damn when you are feeding on moose, caribou, blueberries and bakeapples on the rock you are going to be big.
 
#73 ·
My brother went to school with one of the game wardens in Cape Breton. According to the warden some zones have little, and it would be very difficult if you were drawn for those zones. He thinks less than 2000 moose left, more like around 1500. He says next year he doubts it will be open to non native. Well managed. Everyone is responsible getting to this point.
 
#76 ·
I said this earlier in this thread and based on what you are saying it's true.

"
Some might need to ask is the plan to get numbers so low that it only becomes a native hunt?

If anything the most racist thing anyone can say is that natives know best, or they are natures best manager etc. call BS on that one. Just because you have native blood doesn't make you a supreme all knowing biologist and conservationist.

Some might even prefer every last moose is gone that way the controversy surrounding this whole thing goes away as well, but for sure the ones to blame for that wouldn't be the natives, it would be gov't and the non-native hunt. Then when moose get introduced again it may only be a native only hunt cause they "know best".

"
 
#74 ·
[QUOTE WoodsMaster
Tim - The driving for hours part made me laugh. I spent 6 months in 2021 in Corner Brook for work.....Travelled the backcountry with my new local friends. Not one moose was seen the entire 6 months! I laugh everytime someone asks how many moose I saw over there lol
[/QUOTE]


That’s very believable that you didn’t see any moose. Moose aren’t near as plentiful in NL as they were. Talk to some of the hunters returning on the ferry who either didn’t see a moose or a good shot didn’t present itself. Weather (fog, rain, wind and even hurricanes) can and often limit opportunities. Three years ago I hunted hard and only had one opportunity on the last afternoon. Fortunately it worked out. The first 3 days you couldn’t see any distance so didn’t hunt many hours. The last two years were successful as well, but met other hunters on the ferry who were skunked. My outfitter and his guides work really hard which increases a hunters chance.

But you’re right Woodsmaster, although it’s a great experience don’t expect moose sightings like there used to be. At least that has been my experience. Four more months to go but who’s counting?🤗
 
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