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Joe, The findings of the survey does not match what we are witnessing in our section of Zone 3 with one exception: the number of calves. I would be very interested in knowing the calf count in this recent aerial survey and how this compares to the norm.

In the Summer of 2012, we came across this freshly killed calf at the Raspberry Bog. It was still warm. I'm wondering if the coyotes are playing more of a role than we think.


View attachment 100769

For the past several years we’ve had game cams at a number of our sites for several months in the Summer up to the hunting season. We’ve had hundreds of hits at our spots. And it’s not always the same ones. We know that there are at least 25 to 30 different moose coming to our sites. But one thing that we have noticed is the very low number of calves...??? Why aren’t they showing up on our game cams...??? And I’m not talking about just one year...consistently over the past 4 or 5 years...very very few calves..?? Lots of cows young and old..but very few calves..???

I don’t think the area that we hunt is typical of Zone 3. Some of our spots are in “Wilderness Areas” and these areas are surrounded by small sections that have been logged for the past decade or so. So there’s a wide variety of secondary growth around the untouched Wilderness Areas. That along with lots of small bogs and ponds in fairly remote woods is likely creating a ‘pocket’ where moose can thrive. Just guessing..??

I can confirm what some are saying about the deer coming back. In 1994 we actually encountered deer. And then they disappeared for over 20 years. For the past 2 or 3 years we see droppings and tracks right alongside the moose tracks. We’re pretty much centrally located in Hunters’ Mountain so for them to be there likely means that they are spread out in most of Hunters’ Mountain.
Thanks David for chiming in your feedback is better and more accurate than any survey or study done IMO
You hit on something that I forgot about and have seen videos of it coyotes taking moose in packs up there yet DNR says they don't or did indicate that
I think you are on to something with the low calf numbers being seen and the impact coyotes are having and as you know our coyotes are closer to wolves than coyotes so no issue for them talking moose calves even adults
I would say your guess is very accurate Just know something is going on different way beyond the usual jacking , rough winters etc etc since it is happening way too fast now the decline
Thanks again
Joe
Little bit on it here
 
Joe, The findings of the survey does not match what we are witnessing in our section of Zone 3 with one exception: the number of calves. I would be very interested in knowing the calf count in this recent aerial survey and how this compares to the norm.

In the Summer of 2012, we came across this freshly killed calf at the Raspberry Bog. It was still warm. I'm wondering if the coyotes are playing more of a role than we think.


View attachment 100769

For the past several years we’ve had game cams at a number of our sites for several months in the Summer up to the hunting season. We’ve had hundreds of hits at our spots. And it’s not always the same ones. We know that there are at least 25 to 30 different moose coming to our sites. But one thing that we have noticed is the very low number of calves...??? Why aren’t they showing up on our game cams...??? And I’m not talking about just one year...consistently over the past 4 or 5 years...very very few calves..?? Lots of cows young and old..but very few calves..???

I don’t think the area that we hunt is typical of Zone 3. Some of our spots are in “Wilderness Areas” and these areas are surrounded by small sections that have been logged for the past decade or so. So there’s a wide variety of secondary growth around the untouched Wilderness Areas. That along with lots of small bogs and ponds in fairly remote woods is likely creating a ‘pocket’ where moose can thrive. Just guessing..??

I can confirm what some are saying about the deer coming back. In 1994 we actually encountered deer. And then they disappeared for over 20 years. For the past 2 or 3 years we see droppings and tracks right alongside the moose tracks. We’re pretty much centrally located in Hunters’ Mountain so for them to be there likely means that they are spread out in most of Hunters’ Mountain.
I am just guessing here but probably over the ears the bulls are primarly the ones being shot. The bulls only now means probably more shot, more pressure on them. Growing up there I last hunted there in 1989. Living in the Valley now for 20 years and required to shooting bucks only I now see nothing but does each year, and too no calfs, and of course very few bucks. Maybe things need to be the other way as it has helped nothing here.
 
Maybe there needs to be a no-hunt buffer zone created around the borders of the park?
Unfortunately it would NOT apply to natives.
When you see a flatbed truck with 31 moose come off the mountain in June the biggest problem becomes obvious. Vechile was stopped by authorities moose were counted but nothing could be done due to native cards shown to authorities
Sure the locals in the area take some moose no where near to the same extent.
 
Unfortunately it would NOT apply to natives.
When you see a flatbed truck with 31 moose come off the mountain in June the biggest problem becomes obvious. Vechile was stopped by authorities moose were counted but nothing could be done due to native cards shown to authorities
Sure the locals in the area take some moose no where near to the same extent.
What is bad is what ever steps out in the open is shot. Cows with calves and those carrying. . No one should be in the highlands all year. Todays technology is killing off all species. There has to be done to give them a chance. Maybe instead of bulls only, no guides for a year or two. Let people go it on there own, maybe more will live.
 
I am just guessing here but probably over the ears the bulls are primarly the ones being shot. The bulls only now means probably more shot, more pressure on them. Growing up there I last hunted there in 1989. Living in the Valley now for 20 years and required to shooting bucks only I now see nothing but does each year, and too no calfs, and of course very few bucks. Maybe things need to be the other way as it has helped nothing here.
Any regrets leaving the cape I almost did it also mid 80's was tired of all the strikes on the mines and went looking Michelin was hiring techs / millwrights and now that I met buckmark some glad I didnot take that job ( :love: :love: just kidding buckmark) It was new minus pulp and paper or pulp and power ??? they were called . Dam near moved and took that one They even paid to have my mrs down to look the area over and she loved it
I think they made egg crates and stuff like that from recycled paper and unsure if even there now
Family got upset since mom and grandmother depended on us so much so I stayed. Valley is a beautiful place especially for someone like me who likes to farm and garden Hunting way better also but then there is those dam bears which scare the poop out of me :(
Cheers
 
Unfortunately it would NOT apply to natives.
When you see a flatbed truck with 31 moose come off the mountain in June the biggest problem becomes obvious. Vechile was stopped by authorities moose were counted but nothing could be done due to native cards shown to authorities
Sure the locals in the area take some moose no where near to the same extent.
While I'm OK with aboriginals/natives taking fish and game for their use, IMO that kind of excess is simple greed and abuse. Even if 100% of the animals was went to local aboriginal families, killing that many is still abusing the resource as far as I'm concerned. With the amount of money given to First Nations, they absolutely should not need to rely on wild game to feed themselves.
 
Every one should be accountable. Not to set limits for natives but knowing there kill would indicate whether the herd could support another 300 plus licenses in a draw.
Personally, I 100% believe there should be a limit put on the native harvest. AND, I think THEY should be the ones initiating it and helping enforce it!!! Then as you say, that number, whatever it is, comes right off the top of whatever number of licenses would have been issued in a draw. Because you know damm well if they say we will kill 50 moose a year, they will kill all 50 100% of the time and that has to be taken into account when trying to manage the herd.
 
Personally, I 100% believe there should be a limit put on the native harvest. AND, I think THEY should be the ones initiating it and helping enforce it!!! Then as you say, that number, whatever it is, comes right off the top of whatever number of licenses would have been issued in a draw. Because you know damm well if they say we will kill 50 moose a year, they will kill all 50 100% of the time and that has to be taken into account when trying to manage the herd.
Agree but they sure would not be killing 50 if the white man would not be buying it from them or using them to go hunting to get one when they cannot draw a tag
That is a huge part of it yet the same white man is complaining and blaming first nations
Huge fines and a few examples made public is needed This has to be reduced and ideally stopped Not a year goes by I am not offered moose meat or a full moose at peanuts IMO for meat and no dam way will I take even one steak regardless how much I like eating CB moose Real easy to obtain if one has first nations friends in the loop but have to admit not as many sources in the last 5 years since their harvest is way down also A friend who cuts them up for many first nations hunters says down about 75% in the last number of years which should be expected with the condition of the herd now
What really pisses me off is if a average joe knows what is taking place and where to source moose meat WTF is wrong with DNR other than won't touch it with a 10 foot pole so who is the biggest part of the problem. Christ some even list it on kijiji it is reported and what does the DNR do NOTHING.
Cheers
 
Agree but they sure would not be killing 50 if the white man would not be buying it from them or using them to go hunting to get one when they cannot draw a tag
That is a huge part of it yet the same white man is complaining and blaming first nations
Huge fines and a few examples made public is needed This has to be reduced and ideally stopped Not a year goes by I am not offered moose meat or a full moose at peanuts IMO for meat and no dam way will I take even one steak regardless how much I like eating CB moose Real easy to obtain if one has first nations friends in the loop but have to admit not as many sources in the last 5 years since their harvest is way down also A friend who cuts them up for many first nations hunters says down about 75% in the last number of years which should be expected with the condition of the herd now
What really pisses me off is if a average joe knows what is taking place and where to source moose meat WTF is wrong with DNR other than won't touch it with a 10 foot pole so who is the biggest part of the problem. Christ some even list it on kijiji it is reported and what does the DNR do NOTHING.
Cheers
Its such a joke. A DNR and native community that calls for culls? Who are these smart people anyway who now say different? You do not have to look to far to find a native connection on many that go regularly. My buddy (or x buddy) will go as many times as he wants with his native wife, then preach to me about hunting regulations, gun laws etc. The management of the moose is as messed up as the Toronto Maple Leafs
 
Its such a joke. A DNR and native community that calls for culls? Who are these smart people anyway who now say different? You do not have to look to far to find a native connection on many that go regularly. My buddy (or x buddy) will go as many times as he wants with his native wife, then preach to me about hunting regulations, gun laws etc. The management of the moose is as messed up as the Toronto Maple Leafs
I hear you and agree
 
So with a Bull only hunt and if they give out 345 tags expect a success rate of <50% just based on last years hunt.

345 tags in 2022 yielded 150 Bulls and 44 Cows for a total harvest of success of 57.9 % for the settlers/occupiers.

Assume the same numbers if you take the raw numbers you are going to get a 43% success rate for 2023. I would expect it to even be lower than that. Going to be a tough hunt for whoever gets drawn.
 
So with a Bull only hunt and if they give out 345 tags expect a success rate of <50% just based on last years hunt.

345 tags in 2022 yielded 150 Bulls and 44 Cows for a total harvest of success of 57.9 % for the settlers/occupiers.

Assume the same numbers if you take the raw numbers you are going to get a 43% success rate for 2023. I would expect it to even be lower than that. Going to be a tough hunt for whoever gets drawn.
That number means very little when you have cows taken all year long. In your second life never, never come back as a moose 😀
 
So I gave up long ago being frustrated with how Nova Scotia and the Feds mis-manages the CB moose population. The left wing voices lead by the Feds have taken common sense out of the picture and opened up a culture of apologists.

Why are the natives given the “special or inherent rights” to the CB moose? Logical question I think? Those animals are not native to CB in fact were brought here from Alberta in 1947. Can they honestly say their ancestors hunted moose in CB? Didn’t happen. What if N.S. brought Alberta Elk , Mulies, or Antelope to CB? Non native species - would the natives be given “special inherited rights” for those animals?

Yes, they can make a claim to caribou but they were extirpated in the 1920’s. Will that be the fate of the CB moose?

So to try and get a handle on this now isn't going to happen. Will any govt at any level deal with making any changes to save the moose - common sense has taken a back seat to political correctness run amuck and it’s getting worse. Accountability and consequences for this slaughter isn't something I’ll see so my past frustration has unfortunately turned to reluctant acceptance.

And before anyone thinks to throw the “racist” term at me (an easy and cheap shot to do), I don’t care if you‘re white, black, yellow, red, pink and blue or a member of the “glug-a-mux group from Mars“, if logic and common sense regarding this hunt doesn’t happen then the CB moose will go the way of the Caribou. Natives and non- natives will kill this resource off without impunity.
 
So I gave up long ago being frustrated with how Nova Scotia and the Feds mis-manages the CB moose population. The left wing voices lead by the Feds have taken common sense out of the picture and opened up a culture of apologists.

Why are the natives given the “special or inherent rights” to the CB moose? Logical question I think? Those animals are not native to CB in fact were brought here from Alberta in 1947. Can they honestly say their ancestors hunted moose in CB? Didn’t happen. What if N.S. brought Alberta Elk , Mulies, or Antelope to CB? Non native species - would the natives be given “special inherited rights” for those animals?

Yes, they can make a claim to caribou but they were extirpated in the 1920’s. Will that be the fate of the CB moose?

So to try and get a handle on this now isn't going to happen. Will any govt at any level deal with making any changes to save the moose - common sense has taken a back seat to political correctness run amuck and it’s getting worse. Accountability and consequences for this slaughter isn't something I’ll see so my past frustration has unfortunately turned to reluctant acceptance.

And before anyone thinks to throw the “racist” term at me (an easy and cheap shot to do), I don’t care if you‘re white, black, yellow, red, pink and blue or a member of the “glug-a-mux group from Mars“, if logic and common sense regarding this hunt doesn’t happen then the CB moose will go the way of the Caribou. Natives and non- natives will kill this resource off without impunity.
Very well stated Gary !
 
So I gave up long ago being frustrated with how Nova Scotia and the Feds mis-manages the CB moose population. The left wing voices lead by the Feds have taken common sense out of the picture and opened up a culture of apologists.

Why are the natives given the “special or inherent rights” to the CB moose? Logical question I think? Those animals are not native to CB in fact were brought here from Alberta in 1947. Can they honestly say their ancestors hunted moose in CB? Didn’t happen. What if N.S. brought Alberta Elk , Mulies, or Antelope to CB? Non native species - would the natives be given “special inherited rights” for those animals?

Yes, they can make a claim to caribou but they were extirpated in the 1920’s. Will that be the fate of the CB moose?

So to try and get a handle on this now isn't going to happen. Will any govt at any level deal with making any changes to save the moose - common sense has taken a back seat to political correctness run amuck and it’s getting worse. Accountability and consequences for this slaughter isn't something I’ll see so my past frustration has unfortunately turned to reluctant acceptance.

And before anyone thinks to throw the “racist” term at me (an easy and cheap shot to do), I don’t care if you‘re white, black, yellow, red, pink and blue or a member of the “glug-a-mux group from Mars“, if logic and common sense regarding this hunt doesn’t happen then the CB moose will go the way of the Caribou. Natives and non- natives will kill this resource off without impunity.

Some might need to ask is the plan to get numbers so low that it only becomes a native hunt?

If anything the most racist thing anyone can say is that natives know best, or they are natures best manager etc. call BS on that one. Just because you have native blood doesn't make you a supreme all knowing biologist and conservationist.

Some might even prefer every last moose is gone that way the controversy surrounding this whole thing goes away as well, but for sure the ones to blame for that wouldn't be the natives, it would be gov't and the non-native hunt. Then when moose get introduced again it may only be a native only hunt cause they "know best".
 
Agree but they sure would not be killing 50 if the white man would not be buying it from them or using them to go hunting to get one when they cannot draw a tag
That is a huge part of it yet the same white man is complaining and blaming first nations
Huge fines and a few examples made public is needed This has to be reduced and ideally stopped Not a year goes by I am not offered moose meat or a full moose at peanuts IMO for meat and no dam way will I take even one steak regardless how much I like eating CB moose Real easy to obtain if one has first nations friends in the loop but have to admit not as many sources in the last 5 years since their harvest is way down also A friend who cuts them up for many first nations hunters says down about 75% in the last number of years which should be expected with the condition of the herd now
What really pisses me off is if a average joe knows what is taking place and where to source moose meat WTF is wrong with DNR other than won't touch it with a 10 foot pole so who is the biggest part of the problem. Christ some even list it on kijiji it is reported and what does the DNR do NOTHING.
Cheers
To be clear, I'm not blaming only First Nations hunters. Us white guys are just as big a problem if not more.
Fines and license suspensions should be so high that no one would be stupid enough to risk it and every case should be made public as you say. Name and shame!
 
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