Stolen car leads to unsafe storage charges

879 Views 52 Replies 12 Participants Last post by 3macs1, 14 d ago

Wendell

Discussion Starter · 18 d ago

After an incident involving a stolen vehicle, Yellowknife RCMP have laid unsafe storage charges against a firearms owner.

Stolen car leads to firearms being recovered and a reminder about safe storage

May 17, 2023 - If you are a firearms owner, you may want to keep them locked away or safely stored. That reminder comes courtesy of Yellowknife RCMP in a press release issued on Tuesday afternoon and here’s why:...

www.nnsl.com

Police are reminding the public to ensure that firearms in vehicles be stored in a locked container when not in use. One example provided was a gun safe bolted to the vehicle floor or in the trunk. As well, it must be concealed from plain sight so it isn’t easily identifiable as a gun safe.

At home, police recommend keeping firearms in a locked cabinet or safe where easy access isn’t available. The released stated that storing firearms unloaded with trigger locks or cable locks to prevent accidental discharges are extra ways to ensure safety. The safe or cabinet should be bolted securely to prevent theft or tampering.

Stolen car leads to firearms being recovered and a reminder about safe storage

May 17, 2023 - If you are a firearms owner, you may want to keep them locked away or safely stored. That reminder comes courtesy of Yellowknife RCMP in a press release issued on Tuesday afternoon and here’s why:...

www.nnsl.com

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TrueGrit

· #21 · 16 d ago

Interesting question, Louisbear.
Mine is in a clip in my pocket. As I get closer to the truck, the clip is removed, chambered round ejected and into the pocket it all goes. Can the gun be in the passenger seat or does it need to be in the back seat, is another question?
Is it a unlocked but not easily reached kind of thing?

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Tyson10gauge

· #22 · 16 d ago

I've been told by 2 different Wardens , while in a wildlife Habitat and actively hunting , Chamber open And unloaded it can be on the front seat next to you but prefer mote in back seat area , and all rounds must be out of site hence , pockets , bags or backpacks but not in plain view . All other times , Cased unloaded and ammo stored accordingly during hunting season .

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TonyM

· #23 · 16 d ago

Tyson10gauge said:
I've been told by 2 different Wardens , while in a wildlife Habitat and actively hunting , Chamber open And unloaded it can be on the front seat next to you but prefer mote in back seat area , and all rounds must be out of site hence , pockets , bags or backpacks but not in plain view . All other times , Cased unloaded and ammo stored accordingly during hunting season .

There is an interesting question. What is considered OK for storing ammo when transporting during hunting season? Mine is in the zippered side pouch of my gun case. Separate from the gun but not by much.

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Buckmark

· #24 · 16 d ago

TonyM said:
There is an interesting question. What is considered OK for storing ammo when transporting during hunting season? Mine is in the zippered side pouch of my gun case. Separate from the gun but not by much.

I’m thinking that might not be allowed. I was told you need to keep the ammo separate from the firearm. Maybe the side pocket of the case is considered “separate” ???? I never put my ammo or magazines in that side pocket anyway.

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Tyson10gauge

· #25 · 16 d ago

I was always told must be stored away from the firearm , Only thing I keep in side pockets of my gun cases is a Oily rag or Silicone rag in Ziplock bag and bottle of Gun or Silicone oil , and a Cleaning rod for over night stays if needed . Other than that my ammo is always in my duffle or back pack or side carry bag for trips home or out to where ever my destination is .

Even Waterfowl hunting my ammo is always in my floating blind bag with my other gear .

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superslickie

· #26 · 16 d ago

As ive been led to believe, on the front passenger side/seat unloaded with ammo in a separate spot outta sight. CO would like action open but at present it is not written, go the extra step and open it up.
If you follow the rules, ammo doesnt even get touched before youre 30m (100ft) from the road and facing away. It is illegal to have a loaded firearm in an area where you are not allowed to hunt.

I hunt back woods logging roads for grouse and i usually see them driving in. I generally grab my shotgun, step out, load, fire from behind the door. Ive asked if that was legal and was told yes and no and maybe. Depends on the road and the CO if youre stopped. Im usually miles from pavement and haven't seen anyone for miles. Still may not be ok but ill take the chance if its the only one ive seen that day.

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TrueGrit

· #27 · 16 d ago

I respect your honesty, SS. I agree, probably a bit of a gray area but in the grand scheme of things, I see no harm in it.

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TonyM

· #28 · 16 d ago

I think most of us have done it. I know I have jumped out of the car and shot a few from the side of the road in New Brunswick. Not legal if a public road. But when you're a long way from pavement and no one else around and a good backstop it didn't seem like a big deal. I'm more cautious now.

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TonyM

· #29 · 16 d ago

superslickie said:
As ive been led to believe, on the front passenger side/seat unloaded with ammo in a separate spot outta sight. CO would like action open but at present it is not written, go the extra step and open it up.
If you follow the rules, ammo doesnt even get touched before youre 30m (100ft) from the road and facing away. It is illegal to have a loaded firearm in an area where you are not allowed to hunt.

I hunt back woods logging roads for grouse and i usually see them driving in. I generally grab my shotgun, step out, load, fire from behind the door. Ive asked if that was legal and was told yes and no and maybe. Depends on the road and the CO if youre stopped. Im usually miles from pavement and haven't seen anyone for miles. Still may not be ok but ill take the chance if its the only one ive seen that day.

I never load the gun until I'm at least 100 feet off a road and always unload before the 100 feet on the way out. Even on my Ebike or mountain bike I have the gun cased and unloaded just to make sure I'm well inside the law. I think I'll start transporting ammo in my backpack now just to be sure.

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louisbear

· #30 · 16 d ago (Edited)

If the road you are travelling on is a non - maintained or abandoned road such as an old haul road, then it is not considered a public road way. You may shoot from this road. However, if there is a possibility that over the crest or around the bend a person may be walking on the same abandoned road as you and you shoot in their direction and something unfortunate happens, then you may be charged with the careless use of a firearm. As always, make certain of your target and its background and consider the direction that the roadway may take to make sure your bullet will not cross it. With all the 4 wheelers and hunters travelling these old trails at that time of year you can never be too careful.

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3macs1

· #31 · 16 d ago (Edited)

It is real sad we are debating this at this stage
It must be very clearly written in both the wildlife act and the NS hunting regulations to ensure people are doing the right thing and not be charged since ask 5 officers and one will get at least 3 different versions I for one will be sending a letter
But why should I be shocked it is NS

Minister of Natural Resources and Renewables

nslegislature.ca

and then I have to ask do any of the federal regulations come into play also

Safe, And Legal Storage Of Non-Restricted Firearms

You have come home from a long day of hunting. You didn’t see so much as a chattering squirrel all day. You are wet and weary. The only thing

nfa.ca

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louisbear

· #32 · 16 d ago (Edited)

I think the rules regarding the transportation and storage of a muzzle loader are the most confusing to date. A muzzle loader must have the primer, powder and projectile removed to be considered unloaded for transporting and for storage. EXCEPTION : During the muzzle loader hunting season, on the same day, you can transport your muzzle loader from one hunting site to another during legal day light hours by removing the primer only. However, one half hour after sunset it must have the primer, powder and projectile removed and either encased and locked out of sight in a vehicle or trigger locked or stored in a locked cabinet in your dwelling.

My question is this. How easy is it to get the projectile out of a rifled barrel if you do not want to fire off the muzzle loader after each day hunted. Firing off a muzzle loader at the end of the hunting day, seems counter productive to me especially if you plan to hunt that same area the next day or several times through the season.
I think I will be sticking to my Centre fire rifle.

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Buckmark

· #33 · 15 d ago

3macs1 said:
It is real sad we are debating this at this stage
It must be very clearly written in both the wildlife act and the NS hunting regulations to ensure people are doing the right thing and not be charged since ask 5 officers and one will get at least 3 different versions I for one will be sending a letter
But why should I be shocked it is NS

Minister of Natural Resources and Renewables

nslegislature.ca

and then I have to ask do any of the federal regulations come into play also

Safe, And Legal Storage Of Non-Restricted Firearms

You have come home from a long day of hunting. You didn’t see so much as a chattering squirrel all day. You are wet and weary. The only thing

nfa.ca

Yes ... ask 5 different CO's, and you'll get 5 different answers. No good to write a letter... you may or may not get the right answer.

According to this ... I could have a shotgun sitting on the kitchen table at all times. If the RCMP came to visit, I could just say, "I was admiring it".

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Buckmark

· #34 · 15 d ago

louisbear said:
I think the rules regarding the transportation and storage of a muzzle loader are the most confusing to date. A muzzle loader must have the primer, powder and projectile removed to be considered unloaded for transporting and for storage. EXCEPTION : During the muzzle loader hunting season, on the same day, you can transport your muzzle loader from one hunting site to another during legal day light hours by removing the primer only. However, one half hour after sunset it must have the primer, powder and projectile removed and either encased and locked out of sight in a vehicle or trigger locked or stored in a locked cabinet in your dwelling.

My question is this. How easy is it to get the projectile out of a rifled barrel if you do not want to fire off the muzzle loader after each day hunted. Firing off a muzzle loader at the end of the hunting day, seems counter productive to me especially if you plan to hunt that same area the next day or several times through the season.
I think I will be sticking to my Centre fire rifle.

The primer is the only thing that I take out of my muzzle loader. It would cost me a small fortune to lose that powder at the end of every day. This is another thing .... ask 5 different CO's and get 5 different answers. According to one CO that I know ... as long as the primer is out, that's all they are really concerned about. When you think about it ... a muzzle loader without a primer, is like a single shot shotgun without a shell in the chamber. You can drop the hammer all day long, it won't fire.

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louisbear

· #35 · 15 d ago (Edited)

Yes, the rules for storage of a muzzle loader makes them a pain in the ass to hunt with, especially if you plan to hunt for several days in a row. However, the storage rules are not for the convenience of hunters, but for the safety of others. These rules are made for the safety of others taking in to account all the possible scenarios that could result in a discharge of the firearm.
For an example, you encased and locked your muzzle loader with the powder and projectile left in the barrel and stored it in your vehicle overnight, For some unforeseen reason your vehicle catches fire and the flames and heat of the fire ignite the powder in the barrel causing the firearm to discharge and the projectile strikes and injures a bystander. You will be charged with careless storage of a firearm under the Canada Firearms Act.
I know this may seem like an extreme example but the rules are made to prevent the accidental discharge of a firearm.

unloaded, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm. (non chargée)

Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

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TonyM

· #36 · 15 d ago

Buckmark said:
The primer is the only thing that I take out of my muzzle loader. It would cost me a small fortune to lose that powder at the end of every day. This is another thing .... ask 5 different CO's and get 5 different answers. According to one CO that I know ... as long as the primer is out, that's all they are really concerned about. When you think about it ... a muzzle loader without a primer, is like a single shot shotgun without a shell in the chamber. You can drop the hammer all day long, it won't fire.

Years ago I was told that a Muzzleloader is considered unloaded if the primer is removed so that's what I did for years. As you say, its then just like a single shot really. Though I have no confidence all COs and cops would look at it that way! So now I pull the projectile before I get 100 feet from the road and fire the powder charge. Its a waste of several caps and charges each year but guarantees I'm within the law.

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Tyson10gauge

· #37 · 15 d ago

Well Cannot find it right now but in the Handbook correct me if wrong and waiting to be proved wrong once again , but it states the Breach Plug must be removed from the Muzzle loader during hunting season for safe transport , and that is what I've been told by C.Os now saying that the RCMP which set ALL LAWS pertaining to transporting ALL FIREARMS , all FIREARMS MUST BE UNLOADED , as per definitions of RCMP that means no powder , no projectile and no primers .
CO's and DNR&R can write one thing as per PROVINCIAL regs and be fine with that , but you get the wrong RCMP member who goes by the book and says FEDERAL LAWS over ride All PROVINCIAL REGS on TRANSPORT , you will loose 100% of the time .
FROM THE RCMP WEB SITE , clearly says must be unloaded during transport

Font Parallel Screenshot Advertising Web page

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3macs1

· #38 · 15 d ago (Edited)

Buckmark said:
Yes ... ask 5 different CO's, and you'll get 5 different answers. No good to write a letter... you may or may not get the right answer.

According to this ... I could have a shotgun sitting on the kitchen table at all times. If the RCMP came to visit, I could just say, "I was admiring it".

Agree on the co's and yes the letter will be more than likely be usless but make me feel better This should be all in black and white very clearly written
Maybe I could ask my bud Justin to give old tim a call

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3macs1

· #39 · 15 d ago (Edited)

We beat this one before and the details are here on the way home nothing in the muzzy 100% Read gary's post 8

From the INTERPRETATION section of the Regs;
unloaded, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm. (non chargée).

From the Transportation of Non Restricted Firearms

10(1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if
- (a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and
- (b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.

If you look at whats written, it's obvious, to me, that you are permitted to transport between hunting sites if the cap/primer is removed. I do NOT interpret it as being able to store with charge & projectile in place.

Firearms act/regs is Federal in Canada - so, whoever is asking/looking/checking needs to be looking for Federal infractions. Point being, will the Provincial Conservation Officer get that deep into the Federal Firearms Act/Regs?

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3macs1

· #40 · 15 d ago

Buckmark said:
The primer is the only thing that I take out of my muzzle loader. It would cost me a small fortune to lose that powder at the end of every day. This is another thing .... ask 5 different CO's and get 5 different answers. According to one CO that I know ... as long as the primer is out, that's all they are really concerned about. When you think about it ... a muzzle loader without a primer, is like a single shot shotgun without a shell in the chamber. You can drop the hammer all day long, it won't fire.

OMG another thing you do illegally

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